Why I think the Railroad is the only Viable Option.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Every other faction, including the Minutemen is a collectivst nightmare waiting to happen. Only the Railroad represents a value placed ont he individual as the highest order.

In the Minutemen, you're expect to die for your neighbors tatos.

In the Institute, you're expected to Kill to grow better gourds.

In the Brotherhood, you're expected to bleed to save people from themselves.


Only in the Railroad is individual agency even acknowledged. And this is the cornerstone of a just, and more importantly, sustainable society in the long term. Think of Communist and Authoritarian hellholes that collapse at the drop of a hat. That's the future assigned to the Commonwealth under the other 3 factions. The only principals they stand for is "Muh group" and readily compromise their ideals if it's for the benefit of "muh group" while the Railroad stands for, is united by, and fights for the individual autonomy of people. (Synth and Human)

People often associate the Railroad with the Civil Rights movement, for obvious reason, but the actual political alignment of the factions goes like this:

Brotherhood of Steel - Right Wing Authoritarian (Fascist)

Institute - Left Wing Authoritarian (Communist)

Minutemen - Left Wing Collectivist (Anarcho-Communist)

Railroad - Right Wing Individualist (Libertarian)

It must be noted for the layperson, that Right/Left wing are demarcations of economic policy. For example, the Brotherhood of Steel participates in the Free Market, even though they are authoritarian (Making them Right-wing), the Institute does not (And in fact, simply redistributes other's property as they see fit, making them Left-Wing of the highest order)

However, examining the Railroad, one sees all the telltale aspects of a just, Libertarian society (not total ideological purity, no practical system can ever be ideologically pure, but it's good enough)

1. Meritocracy: The Best people are chosen for the Job from the available pool.

2. Free Market economy: The Railroad is the one faction that does not appropriate other people's property for their own purposes. (DIA Caches are nobody's property)

3. Individual Agency: Most agents have their own purposes, their own goals, even their own lives. They're free to abandon their post at any time for any reason. Even PAM is not a slave, but a volunteer.

4: Equality of Opportunity, not Equality of Outcome: Most relevant to the fight to liberate synths. the Railroad seeks to provide individuals (Including synths) with the same opportunity to create their own life. Even if they choose to become a Raider, assassin or just settle on a farm somewhere. The Railroad may suggest options (Mind wipe, resettlement) but ultimately leaves the decision up to the individual in question.

5: Don't Tread on Me: The quest designers were quite cognizant of the Railroad's Identity, which is why in particular, the Brotherhood conflict is brought to a head, only after the Brotherhood attacks the Railroad. The Railroad is viciously defensive, but generally unwilling to initiate a set of hostile action first. (And remember, most/All escaped synths are just that, Escapees that the Railroad helps)

[JDaremo Fireheart]

Meh, Railroad by themselves are useless and linear.
Combined with the Minutement they are a viable option but not alone and certainly not with the Brotherhood or Institute. Damn automaton rascists

and the minutemen are not communists, if anything they are a Confederation of Democracy with Socialism

[Dryden]

The railroad reminds me of antifa.

[paugus]

First you need to explain why it's important to create a structured society, second why it needs to be one of the existing factions. If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Originally posted by Dryden:

The railroad reminds me of antifa.

Then you don't undestand Antifa or the Railroad. I've outlined how actually Antifa and the Railroad are polar opposites.

Originally posted by paugus:

First you need to explain why it's important to create a structured society, second why it needs to be one of the existing factions. If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

Humans are social creatures. Full stop.

[paugus]

Originally posted by Hobo Misanthropus:

Humans are social creatures. Full stop.

And those tendencies led to a nuclear holocaust and the widescale death of most humans. It's quite easily arguable that society is not a viable survival strategy in the long term. Full stop.

[Dartonal]

the railroad takes synths that are indestinguishable from human and wipe their memory and personality, they basically kill every synth they pressure to go into hiding. It's pointless, at least the other factions don't fight against themselves.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Originally posted by paugus:

Originally posted by paugus:

First you need to explain why it's important to create a structured society, second why it needs to be one of the existing factions. If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

Humans are social creatures. Full stop.

And those tendencies led to a nuclear holocaust and the widescale death of most humans. It's quite easily arguable that society is not a viable survival strategy in the long term. Full stop.

No, it's not arguable in any way. Humans would have gone extinct millions of years ago without social structure. Social hiearchy is a biological imperitive for social animals because collectivisation is an evolutionary strength.

That's why when creating a society you have to ask yourself what are the fundamental principals everyone has to be willing to die for, and why Minimalist Libertarian is always the best starting point.

Originally posted by Dartonal:

the railroad takes synths that are indestinguishable from human and wipe their memory and personality, they basically kill every synth they pressure to go into hiding. It's pointless, at least the other factions don't fight against themselves.

Wrong. Maybe play the Railroad, there's an entire quest that answers this question.

[Dryden]

Originally posted by Hobo Misanthropus:

Originally posted by paugus:

Humans are social creatures. Full stop.

And those tendencies led to a nuclear holocaust and the widescale death of most humans. It's quite easily arguable that society is not a viable survival strategy in the long term. Full stop.

No, it's not arguable in any way. Humans would have gone extinct millions of years ago without social structure. Social hiearchy is a biological imperitive for social animals because collectivisation is an evolutionary strength.

That's why when creating a society you have to ask yourself what are the fundamental principals everyone has to be willing to die for, and why Minimalist Libertarian is always the best starting point.

Money!

[JDaremo Fireheart]

Originally posted by Dartonal:

the railroad takes synths that are indestinguishable from human and wipe their memory and personality, they basically kill every synth they pressure to go into hiding. It's pointless, at least the other factions don't fight against themselves.

Yup, they kill who the Synth was by erasing their personality. Thus creating a whole new Synth.
No better than the Institute wiping the minds of captured ones.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Originally posted by Dryden:

Originally posted by Hobo Misanthropus:

And those tendencies led to a nuclear holocaust and the widescale death of most humans. It's quite easily arguable that society is not a viable survival strategy in the long term. Full stop.

No, it's not arguable in any way. Humans would have gone extinct millions of years ago without social structure. Social hiearchy is a biological imperitive for social animals because collectivisation is an evolutionary strength.

That's why when creating a society you have to ask yourself what are the fundamental principals everyone has to be willing to die for, and why Minimalist Libertarian is always the best starting point.

Money!

Someone clearly doesn't understand that free market economics happens naturally. "Money" is just an abstraction of volatile value. Even in Communist societies, individual groups create barter markets both for Labor and goods.

Originally posted by JDaremo Fireheart:

Originally posted by Dartonal:

the railroad takes synths that are indestinguishable from human and wipe their memory and personality, they basically kill every synth they pressure to go into hiding. It's pointless, at least the other factions don't fight against themselves.

Yup, they kill who the Synth was by erasing their personality. Thus creating a whole new Synth.
No better than the Institute wiping the minds of captured ones.

Except they don't do this. You people have a fundamental misunderstanding of what personal agency means.

Synths are allowed to object to the Mind wipe in the Railroad's case. They are not allowed to object in the Institute. if you think the difference is merely academic, there's no hope for you.

If an analogy would help, it's basically Assisted Suicide (Railroad) versus Murder(Institute)

Which is morally worse?

[paugus]

Originally posted by Hobo Misanthropus:

No, it's not arguable in any way. Humans would have gone extinct millions of years ago without social structure. Social hiearchy is a biological imperitive for social animals because collectivisation is an evolutionary strength.

That's why when creating a society you have to ask yourself what are the fundamental principals everyone has to be willing to die for, and why Minimalist Libertarian is always the best starting point.

I think you're confusing "correct" with "arguable." It's absolutely arguable that society could, in the context of Fallout, be viewed as a threat to the continuation of the species. A vestigial system of organization that has outlived its biological usefulness. The vast majority of the world's population died as a result of arms buildup that was only possible due to structured hierarchical societies. The claim that humans certainly would've gone extinct millions of years ago is unprovable, not to mention ♥♥♥♥ sapiens wasn't even around millions of years ago.

That being said, I agree that libertarianism (in its theoretical form) is the best form of government, because it requires the least amount of compliance with social contracts, which humans don't always like upholding. I don't necessarily agree that the Railroad represents a libertarian government, though. I'm pretty sure killing someone violates their personal freedoms and natural rights, and I'm also pretty sure the Railroad has killed people, either intentionally or accidentally, directly or indirectly, who were not directly aggressing them and necessitating violent resistance.

[Dartonal]

They are afraid of bieng chased by the institute, and they are pressured by the people who saved their lives. Yes they can refuse, but very few refuse to have their mind wiped. They manipulate them into assisted suicide.

The Railroad ask first before they kill the synths. In the end the Railroad will still kill the synths they save. It doesn't matter if they install a new set of memories and a personality or not it is still murder.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Originally posted by Dartonal:

They are afraid of bieng chased by the institute, and they are pressured by the people who saved their lives. Yes they can refuse, but very few refuse to have their mind wiped. They manipulate them into assisted suicide.

The Railroad ask first before they kill the synths. In the end the Railroad will still kill the synths they save. It doesn't matter if they install a new set of memories and a personality or not it is still murder.

The Railroad isn't perfect, that's what makes them compelling. But they're "Better than the Competition" which is all they need to be.

Also, I think the Mind-wipes stop when the Institute is destroyed, this is never explicitly stated, but with no fear, comes no necesssity for the wipe.

[leem]

RR? If you are at the bottom of the barrel where the sludge is might as well join raiders.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Originally posted by leem:

RR? If you are at the bottom of the barrel where the sludge is might as well join raiders.

Don't be an intellectual pygmy my dude.