Is "Reformation" truly the best ending for Far Harbor?

[Noo_Billy]

Helping DiMA to control the village and the Atom seems to let him become the King of Far Harbor. However, he already did something wrong once/twice for his greatest good. Besides me, on this island, who can stop him if he wants to do evil things for his greatest good again?

[Chaosium]

It's the "best" as it avoids a bloodbath between factions and keeps things relatively peaceful.

Defo not the best if you ask me, considering what he has done. I always take him down

[MrSinny]

If you take him down you de facto make the Childs of Atom win since, without his maintenance and help, Far Harbor's and your settlement's fog condensers will eventually fall appart forcing the inhabitants to either leave or die in the fog.

[fauxpas]

No, leaving Far Harbor under the invisible rule of a tyrant with a God complex isn't "best", even if the alternative involves people dying.


What's best is to drag everything out into the light, and either return the island to its natural state (if you believe the CoA are more than a bunch of crazy cultists flirting with detonating a nuke as an elaborate suicide ritual), or secure the settlement by eliminating the CoA.


Because in the end DIMA's way simply ends with everyone who it sees as a threat quietly murdered and replaced until everyone on the island is an unknowing toaster eventually.

[Grendalcat]

I am still conflicted as to what is the "best" ending for FH. I did "Reformation" the first time through, but maybe what fauxpas suggests is better.

Given that radiation doesn't seem to subside in the Fallout world, maybe the Children of Atom
were right all along.

[Sabaithal]

To be honest, I was both too lazy, and I saw the children of atom as a bunch of religious fanatic nutjobs who can't be properly reasoned with in any sane manner.

So I showed up at their HQ with an X02 power armor and a high powered minigun and started mowing down every living thing from the dandelions on upward :)

[Chaosium]

Originally posted by MrSinny:

If you take him down you de facto make the Childs of Atom win.

They can't win if they've been eradicated from the surface of the world *tips forehead*

With both Acadia and the Nucleus's technologies at their disposal, Far Harbor can figure out how condensors work eventually and live in peace.

[DouglasGrave]

Reformation isn't the ideal result, but this is Fallout we're talking about, so when has "ideal" ever been an option? It does lead to the most peaceful result with the fewest people dead.

What are the alternatives? Help the Harbourmen complete what Allen started by murdering preachers (just because he didn't like their talk) by slaughtering those with different beliefs? Let monsters eat Far Harbour (I guess it's justice for those murdered preachers)?

Originally posted by fauxpas:

No, leaving Far Harbor under the invisible rule of a tyrant with a God complex isn't "best", even if the alternative involves people dying.

What's best is to drag everything out into the light, and either return the island to its natural state (if you believe the CoA are more than a bunch of crazy cultists flirting with detonating a nuke as an elaborate suicide ritual), or secure the settlement by eliminating the CoA.

Without DiMA's influence, the Children of Atom would already be happily living on the Island, the Harbourmen having been forced off (or rendered crazy/dead) by the fog, since it's only his fog condensers that saved them. If he just wanted the Island for synths, all he'd need to do is sit back and watch the two other factions tear each other apart.

If DiMA is a tyrant, he's the best kind; one who genuinely tries to help all the people around him live happily, but is still remorseful for the brutal and underhanded methods that are sometimes necessary to protect the peace.

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Because in the end DIMA's way simply ends with everyone who it sees as a threat quietly murdered and replaced until everyone on the island is an unknowing toaster eventually.

For comparison:

In the end the Children's way ends with everyone who isn't immune dead from radiation. It's pretty simple, even if they think radiation is a good and blessed thing.

In the end, the Harbourmen's way ends with the death of every stranger, because they let xenophobia and paranoia rule them. Seriously, this is the group where "DiMA confesses his sins and offers himself up for execution" can lead directly to "murder everyone who lived with him because they're all guilty by association".

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Reformation isn't the ideal result, but this is Fallout we're talking about, so when has "ideal" ever been an option? It does lead to the most peaceful result with the fewest people dead.

What are the alternatives? Help the Harbourmen complete what Allen started by murdering preachers (just because he didn't like their talk) by slaughtering those with different beliefs? Let monsters eat Far Harbour (I guess it's justice for those murdered preachers)?

Originally posted by fauxpas:

No, leaving Far Harbor under the invisible rule of a tyrant with a God complex isn't "best", even if the alternative involves people dying.

What's best is to drag everything out into the light, and either return the island to its natural state (if you believe the CoA are more than a bunch of crazy cultists flirting with detonating a nuke as an elaborate suicide ritual), or secure the settlement by eliminating the CoA.

Without DiMA's influence, the Children of Atom would already be happily living on the Island, the Harbourmen having been forced off (or rendered crazy/dead) by the fog, since it's only his fog condensers that saved them. If he just wanted the Island for synths, all he'd need to do is sit back and watch the two other factions tear each other apart.

If DiMA is a tyrant, he's the best kind; one who genuinely tries to help all the people around him live happily, but is still remorseful for the brutal and underhanded methods that are sometimes necessary to protect the peace.

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Because in the end DIMA's way simply ends with everyone who it sees as a threat quietly murdered and replaced until everyone on the island is an unknowing toaster eventually.

For comparison:

In the end the Children's way ends with everyone who isn't immune dead from radiation. It's pretty simple, even if they think radiation is a good and blessed thing.

In the end, the Harbourmen's way ends with the death of every stranger, because they let xenophobia and paranoia rule them. Seriously, this is the group where "DiMA confesses his sins and offers himself up for execution" can lead directly to "murder everyone who lived with him because they're all guilty by association".

Actually, yes, wiping out either the settlers or the CoA (niether side is "innocent", as the settlers allow Allen too much sway and CoA "priests" were known to sabotage the fog condensers in the past) is far more ideal than allowing DIMA to decide who needs to be quietly murdered and replaced with his puppets.


And honestly, I don't really care about the fate of the toasters in Arcadia, they get taken care of by either the BoS or the Institute, depending on who the Gen(4) SS decides to side with on any given playthrough.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Actually, yes, wiping out either the settlers or the CoA (niether side is "innocent", as the settlers allow Allen too much sway and CoA "priests" were known to sabotage the fog condensers in the past) is far more ideal than allowing DIMA to decide who needs to be quietly murdered and replaced with his puppets.

Why? DiMA is actually trying to produce the best result he can for everyone, while the Harbourmen and Children of Atom both want wholesale murder without restraint.

Though I should separately point out that the Children of Atom are only suspected of any sabotage after Allen Lee murdered one of them.

Originally posted by fauxpas:

And honestly, I don't really care about the fate of the toasters in Arcadia, they get taken care of by either the BoS or the Institute, depending on who the Gen(4) SS decides to side with on any given playthrough.

It's not a given, since there's no requirement to ever tell either group, or side with them in the Commonwealth.

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Actually, yes, wiping out either the settlers or the CoA (niether side is "innocent", as the settlers allow Allen too much sway and CoA "priests" were known to sabotage the fog condensers in the past) is far more ideal than allowing DIMA to decide who needs to be quietly murdered and replaced with his puppets.

Why? DiMA is actually trying to produce the best result he can for everyone, while the Harbourmen and Children of Atom both want wholesale murder without restraint.

Though I should separately point out that the Children of Atom are only suspected of any sabotage after Allen Lee murdered one of them.

Originally posted by fauxpas:

And honestly, I don't really care about the fate of the toasters in Arcadia, they get taken care of by either the BoS or the Institute, depending on who the Gen(4) SS decides to side with on any given playthrough.

It's not a given, since there's no requirement to ever tell either group, or side with them in the Commonwealth.

When "what's best for everyone" results in an neverending cycle of murder and replacing people with puppets, one's -professed- intentions don't matter. ... A violent clash with a clear winner over the land is better in the long run than DIMA's false puppet peace.


Also, the CoA has a history of sabotage, so although you're right that there is no proof the priests Allen murdered were guilty, it's not an unreasonable assumption.


And yes, you don't HAVE to wipe the Toasters out, but there is no reason not to.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

When "what's best for everyone" results in an neverending cycle of murder and replacing people with puppets, one's -professed- intentions don't matter. ... A violent clash with a clear winner over the land is better in the long run than DIMA's false puppet peace.

A neverending cycle? What we've seen is that DiMA is willing (if unhappy) to get his hands dirty when it's necessary. There's no sign at all that he takes it lightly, and while it's possible he might do it again in the future if sufficient need arises, it's his option of last resort, and something he personally hates.

The alternative of a violent clash with a clear winner will simply lead to a neverending cycle of unrestrained slaughter. The next time there's a serious division of opinion (and with people like Tektus and Allen around, there will be) there will be more bloodshed, because violence is what they believe works, instead of people even trying to tolerate each other. Unlike DiMA, they enjoy using bloodshed as their solution, and feel satisfied using it, so they'll keep finding opportunities for it over and over again.

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Also, the CoA has a history of sabotage, so although you're right that there is no proof the priests Allen murdered were guilty, it's not an unreasonable assumption.

Since when do they have a history of sabotage?

Originally posted by fauxpas:

And yes, you don't HAVE to wipe the Toasters out, but there is no reason not to.

There's the possibility of synths being human-equivalent people, and no gain in doing it.

[Potenza]

Some might think that Dima must face justice because of the murder he committed. But Far Harbor people executing the Children of Atom in plain sight is ok? And the Children of Atom murder their own they think have betrayed them.
They are all murderers. So if you decide who stays based on that context you have to destroy them all.