Seymour is such a terrible villain.

[Arthur Morrigan]

I feel like the game would actually be better without him. Nothing he does really alters the course of the story at all.

I don't think he actually accomplishes anything over the course of the entire game and it doesn't really even become clear what he even wants until long after the point he stopped being relevant.

[ShinkuTear]

He accomlishes something, and it is clear what he wants while he is relevant.

Accomplishment: Murdering a notable character, numerous Ronso.

What he wants: The power of Sin. Made clear around Bevelle, when you fight him the second time.

His flaws are mostly because he is an Unsent, and the very model of what Unsent are like: Obsessed with 1 or 2 things, closed minded and violent to everything else.

[KarmaTheAlligator]

He doesn't accomplish much because we stop him, duh.

But seriously he does do stuff, it's just most of that stuff doesn't affect our party directly (except that point between Bevelle and Gagazet were we can play Blitzball again).

[Arthur Morrigan]

Originally posted by ShinkuTear:

Accomplishment: Murdering a notable character, numerous Ronso.

The "notable character" he murdered is some pudgy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that didn't matter that no one cared about. The Ronso he killed were Kimahri's highschool bullies and some unnamed generics. All done off screen. As far as villains go this is incredibly pathetic and in the greater context of the story doesn't matter at all.

What he wants: The power of Sin. Made clear around Bevelle, when you fight him the second time.

This is long after he stopped being relevant (mostly because he's never really relevant).

His flaws are mostly because he is an Unsent, and the very model of what Unsent are like: Obsessed with 1 or 2 things, closed minded and violent to everything else.

He's literally the same before and after being unsent.

[Enfys Ellezard]

Well his backstory is kinda poor even with the explanation from that woman.

Most of his moves are more of a political-reason kind of thing.

He killed a bunch of best-race Ronso though so that does make him a disgusting PoS on my list. Pretty sure he was also behind the attack on Al Bhed Home since he got Yuna from there too

[Yerbad]

Originally posted by Shoot the limbs isaac:

I feel like the game would actually be better without him. Nothing he does really alters the course of the story at all.

I don't think he actually accomplishes anything over the course of the entire game and it doesn't really even become clear what he even wants until long after the point he stopped being relevant.

Kidnaps one of the most useful main characters

Was the catalyst for Yuna questioning her pilgramage and not killing herself, which is kind of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ huge, seriously think about it, without him Yuna would have never had a reason to question the teachings and would have completed her pilgramage normally

Murdered two high-profile leaders one of which was possibly Auron's last living genuine friend

Without him Wakka wouldn't have undergone a large character arc

Kinda went all hitler genocide on a bunch of mountain furries

Seriously went all hitler genocide on a bunch of desert people

He's relevant the instant you meet him and stays that way for a long time. His motivations are incredibly clear from Guadosalam onwards and despite the fact that he dresses like an ass I think he makes a great villain, certainly better than nothing at all.

TL;DR Read between the lines and look at everyone he effects throughout the game

[pre-eminence]

Spoilers ahead, but if you are reading this thread wihtout having completed the game, do yourself a favour and leave now.

Yes he at no point does anything to affect the story or team, I mean clearly before he summoned Anima in Luca, Tidus and Wakka had it covered right? Going to get to see the operation in action from the command centre that you only got to go to because of Seymour, yeah that did nothing for anyone, didn't lead to Tidus accepting Sin was his old man or anything... He doesn't get Yuna to accept his marrage proposal no? Oh wait Macalania -ayy- he does just that, straight after, who attacks the Al Bhed's home? Oh yeah Guado and who tells them what to do? I could go on, but tbh you have been as foolish as the guy that claimed you could have the story without Tidus.

[Yerbad]

Originally posted by Tetsuo:

Spoilers ahead, but if you are reading this thread wihtout having completed the game, do yourself a favour and leave now.

Yes he at no point does anything to affect the story or team, I mean clearly before he summoned Anima in Luca, Tidus and Wakka had it covered right? Going to get to see the operation in action from the command centre that you only got to go to because of Seymour, yeah that did nothing for anyone, didn't lead to Tidus accepting Sin was his old man or anything... He doesn't get Yuna to accept his marrage proposal no? Oh wait Macalania -ayy- he does just that, straight after, who attacks the Al Bhed's home? Oh yeah Guado and who tells them what to do? I could go on, but tbh you have been as foolish as the guy that claimed you could have the story without Tidus.

Honestly, I thought Tidus really only accepted Sin as Jecht after Macalania

[pre-eminence]

@Silversong, technicaly he doesn't 'believe' it until later, but he makes direct reference when chasing Sin that he can't help but think of Zanarkand and his old man when Sin is around, then Auron tells him who Sin is, all in the aftermath of the operation. Can that happen if Seymour doesn't take them to the control centre? So in the long run it is the start of Tidus accepting Sin is Jecht.

[Yerbad]

Originally posted by Tetsuo:

@Silversong, technicaly he doesn't 'believe' it until later, but he makes direct reference when chasing Sin that he can't help but think of Zanarkand and his old man when Sin is around, then Auron tells him who Sin is, all in the aftermath of the operation. Can that happen if Seymour doesn't take them to the control centre? So in the long run it is the start of Tidus accepting Sin is Jecht.

Nooooo no no no no no. Auron tells Tidus at Luca, way before the operation.

[pre-eminence]

Originally posted by Silversong:

Originally posted by Tetsuo:

@Silversong, technicaly he doesn't 'believe' it until later, but he makes direct reference when chasing Sin that he can't help but think of Zanarkand and his old man when Sin is around, then Auron tells him who Sin is, all in the aftermath of the operation. Can that happen if Seymour doesn't take them to the control centre? So in the long run it is the start of Tidus accepting Sin is Jecht.

Nooooo no no no no no. Auron tells Tidus at Luca, way before the operation.

Yes, he tells him in Luca, but Tidus has no reason to even listen. At the operation, Auron doesn't inform him, he tells him with no option for Tidus to question, in Luca he tells him he will see.

[Yerbad]

Originally posted by Tetsuo:

Originally posted by Silversong:

Nooooo no no no no no. Auron tells Tidus at Luca, way before the operation.

Yes, he tells him in Luca, but Tidus has no reason to even listen. At the operation, Auron doesn't inform him, he tells him with no option for Tidus to question, in Luca he tells him he will see.

Of course he has a reason to listen, Auron literally handed Tidus to Sin, and even before that it's clear that Tidus cares for him to some degree.

[pre-eminence]

Originally posted by Silversong:

Originally posted by Tetsuo:

Yes, he tells him in Luca, but Tidus has no reason to even listen. At the operation, Auron doesn't inform him, he tells him with no option for Tidus to question, in Luca he tells him he will see.

Of course he has a reason to listen, Auron literally handed Tidus to Sin, and even before that it's clear that Tidus cares for him to some degree.

You are getting far off topic,
the point is, can anything I stated happen without Seymour? In Luca when does Auron talk to Tidus? After Seymour has saved the day with Anima, at the operation, why are they close enough to the front line to see Sin? Seymour brought them to the command centre.
Also if you really want to argue on opinion within game, show me dialogue where Tidus speaks with a caring tone about Auron, make sure it happens before he hands him to Sin, so you know make sure it's in the opening... 'Some degree' could be applied to near enough every character Tidus has spoken dialogue with, doesn't prove that Tidus would accept that person at his word.

Let me just end this for you now as well, I at no point calimed that Auron deosn't tell Tidus who Sin is before the operation, I simply pointed out that he says it here. So your entire argument falls on this, do you think that within the story it is possible for people to take different things from different scenes? If you accept that no two people in the world are forced to take the same things from a story told to them, you are arguing on nothing. If you feel that everyone should see all stories the same and therefor room for interpretation within the story is not allowed, well I simply won't reply to you again as you will have told me all I need to now about your ability to converse.

[EnglishRosie]

Originally posted by Tetsuo:

Yes he at no point does anything to affect the story or team, I mean clearly before he summoned Anima in Luca, Tidus and Wakka had it covered right?

It's also important to note that after you defeat Seymour on Mt Gagazet, if you choose to return to Macalania Woods/Guadosalam (I can't remember which one it is where you learn this, sorry), a member of the Guado will apologise to you for unleashing the fiends at Luca stadium under Seymour's orders. He planned the whole attack in order to make himself look like a hero when he summoned Anima.

[pre-eminence]

Originally posted by stay away from the summoner:

Originally posted by Tetsuo:

Yes he at no point does anything to affect the story or team, I mean clearly before he summoned Anima in Luca, Tidus and Wakka had it covered right?

It's also important to note that after you defeat Seymour on Mt Gagazet, if you choose to return to Macalania Woods/Guadosalam (I can't remember which one it is where you learn this, sorry), a member of the Guado will apologise to you for unleashing the fiends at Luca stadium under Seymour's orders. He planned the whole attack in order to make himself look like a hero when he summoned Anima.

Thank you, I never noticed this and it of course shows that Seymour means even less to the game, easily could just take him out right? (sarcasm people)

[Monterossa]

Sephiroth accomplished even less than Seymour. Failed everything he attempted and now cannot get out of the lifestream.

He also got killed by lv.1 Cloud.