Did Ubisoft killed Rainbow Six Franchise?(YES! THATS OBVIOUS/ WE WANT R6 BACK. ITS BEEN MORE THAN A DECADE!)

[Bola Satânica]

VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED:

SOME CONTENT IN THIS THREAD IS DATED FROM THE CLOSED ALPHA TIME. THINGS HAVE CHANGED, MY OPINION ABOUT THE CLOSED BETA IS AT THE VERY BOTTOM.

MY REVIEW ABOUT THE FINAL RELEASED VERSION SOON™(ohh boy...)


UPDATED! 8 videos and 7 links.

OPEN BETA RELATED:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZqj5Q0exqU

CLOSED BETA RELATED:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihY8-fiyO5o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cLb_CC3K5U


OTHERS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBmxH9v6MOw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIiZ977gpOU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdgfMdUSM6g&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osYqayiNBng

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEhzgss52WM


USEFUL LINKS:

http://www.mbhahn.com/BlogTopics/tabid/83/EntryId/9/How-Rainbow-Six-was-Ruined.aspx

http://keepcalmandgameon.com/2013/08/rainbow_six/

http://www.giantbomb.com/rainbow-six/3025-555/

http://www.motdmedia.com/shooter_articles/rainbow-six-how-destroy-franchise-one-game

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1056670-Leaked-early-Box-Art-and-Announcement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_shooter

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Six_(s%C3%A9rie)

THE POST BELLOW IS RELATED TO APLHA TIME(SEE THE ONE BELLOW THIS ONE FOR THE CLOSED BETA)

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bola Satânica:

Despite the motives that made Ubisoft deform Rainbow Six "identity", being the "new market tendencies"(money talks) or just the need to try something new, from another point of view. I do want Siege to be a awesome game.
When someone say something like "going back to the roots", he should be ready for a real deal. The roots that we know is not from a distant past, i'm 26 years old for Gods Sake! There is a lot of people older than me in here im sure. I'm from another generation of gamers but i still played a lot of modern CODs(loved seeing Cpt.Price revived, great idea!), BF, CS, so on.
I still hope that this roots are being studied by the devs and they will do their best to recover what they can whit the time that they have. Ubisoft done their beautiful and ugly, they have all the potential in the world but sometimes not the will. I think that the jump between RS and Letdown(=P) was a big mistake, my opinion.

I'm not here to incite hate! Sometimes i can lose temper in my words, but i can apologize for that.

So, what is this thread all about?

This thread is to remember old and new players about the history and "evolution" of this Franchise by inciting argumentation. This thread is for people to talk about Rainbow Six and Tactical Shooter genre definitions, and make people debate also why Ubisoft took such decision. Maybe killed the Franchise?(YES YOU KILLED IT, IT WAS CRUEL) As the title suggests. This can happen whit any game.

Rainbow Six Franchise roots = Tactical Shooter genre. Unquestionable by my point of view.

I don't want all this hate that is around here(but yes, they deserve that), i want people to talk about: R6 and tactical shooters, the future of R6, Ubisoft attitudes towards R6 now and in the past. Politely.

Siege can still make it to the roots, i believe. The roots are hardcore, the roots makes you fear and approach violence the best way, even in easy mode whit all the hud helps.

Besides all the tactical stuff, Tactical Shooter is game that make you really feel, immerse you. You approach the violence whit care, whit fear. That's a Tactical Shooter.

When someone said "going back to the roots", he cought the eye of everyone and they have put themselves in the shadow of old R6 titles.

For everyone that is reading,

Thanks you.

MY OPINION ABOUT THE CLOSED BETA:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bola Satânica:

After days playing the closed beta here is my opinion about the current beta build.

Changes i like:

-The pace of the game has been slowed down. Movement is now slower, giving a much more tactical feel and adding immersion.
-They added leaning, that's awesome.
-They added some recoil, which is also great(recoil still low, very low imo).

All the changes listed above in my opinion helped the game to get some steps closer to its roots.

Things i didn't like:

-No working doors.
-No magazine pool, we get a big ammo pool instead.
-Too much ammo.
-Loadout and operator system.

Let me start this part by saying thanks to all vets from the original fanbase that showed up since the alpha stage, this positive changes happened because of you. If it wasn't for you we could still be playing that terrible "COD" alpha build. I can't believe that Ubisoft at least once have partially listened to their fanbase. All that critics and "Troll posts" wasn't in vain after all.

MP PvP is fun. But the lack of a proper campaign is really sad. The Realistic Terrorist Hunt mode just get too easy if you get matched whit a good team.

The operator system is a disgrace, in every older rainbow title we had the ability to customize our loadout whitout or whit a little few restrictions, it feels like step backwards. Also seeing operatives going around in different uniforms is pretty silly and it breaks some of the immersion giving back that arcade feel.

Since we are in beta phase, we can't expect some major changes, but the game feels that has been positively improved since the alpha.

I still miss some loved features from the older titles like the single-player campaign whit pre-planning and operative management systems. But given the amount of time since the alpha critics wave i think they done what they could.

Overall i think Siege will be a good fun game(i can't say how much it will last, maybe not much), maybe it is not worth the price tag because of the lack of SP campaign. But i will probably buy it whit a good discount.

It is far from what we would expect from a "back to the roots" R6 game but given the situation i think it could have been worst.

The minor changes to the movement and recoil, and the addition of leaning helped the game to recover some of its roots.

I want to give a thank you again to all R6 players, from the original to the newer fanbases, for all the criticism and "troll posting" since the alpha phase. Whitout that we could still be playing that terrible alpha build. At least now it is a bit better. Ubisoft partially listened to us, something i was not expecting them to do.

Also this whole episode was good to remember Ubisoft and teach newer players what was R6 and tactical shooters all about. We lost a lot of realistic aspects through the "evolution" of this franchise but i think they will think more about preserving it from now on, maybe next R6 will be better.

It is obvious that this game will not fully please old R6 fans. A lot of things still missing.
I think that the hardcore tactical shooter fanbase will probably skip this game and wait for Ground Branch, Squad, maybe Due Process. They will keep playing Insurgency, Arma, SWAT 4, Project Reality and some few others Tactical Shooters and Milsims.

Thank you for reading my personal opinion.

Lets discuss...

[僕の名前 (仮)]

Judging from videos I don't like those things:

Hit markers
Grenade markers
Shared ammo pool (reloading after every 2 shots? Yeah!)
Seeing teammates with xray, similar to L4D. Even in CS:GO you can't see teammates throught walls, radar gives only estimate position.
Camera can move over stairs and wire. Wtf?
By the looks of it will have weapon skins. I see this as negative point because it will break authencity.
In videos, it was played on gamepad and that concerns me it will be not as hardcore as CS:GO.
Maps are too small


What I liked: you can now destroy walls, not just doors
Iron sights
Shields
Terrirists can build defensive walls and wire

[Panic Fire]

A lot of misinformation in this thread.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Linblum:

Yep. No more Terrorist Hunt. Its literally CS:GO.

Terroist Hunt is confirmed and they had a working version of it at E3.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από HOTSHOT:

Siege looks like a good game tbh.

BUT

No matter how it's coming out: It will be A TERRIBLE Rainbow Six game.

Wrong franchise!

And no SP is the nail in the coffin, it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ridiculous. Not to mention the small maps. SMALL MAPS! Since when are rainbow Six maps just a basic house?! wtf?!

Single player has been confirmed by the devs. As well as terrorist hunt, and talks of a co op campaign though that may have been terrorist hunt.



Also just to throw this out there the game will also feature "Realistic" difficulty which features 1 to the head = dead.

How all of this stacks up is unkown.'

The biggest gripe seems to be about the UI which I agree is a mess. Need to bash it out in the alpha forums a bit more.

[僕の名前 (仮)]

At least it's not as bad as Vegas.

[Bola Satânica]

Hey guys, just for the record....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmBmsnX-Esg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xUey1rYTGA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mi470Q8cIM

If this ain't gun'n'running, i don't know what gun'n'run is anymore. I just wanna see people try this in the old titles, as you can see in the videos people got shot a lot of times. If they try such tactic in the old titles they will just get rekt, because one shot one kill. As we can clearly see, it has been a little bit dumbed down.

[Jerry]

... Now play it on realistic, kid.

Or try doing that online.


Again, you kids make this too easy, especially the retarded ones like Bola.

[Bola Satânica]

But you can't do that in any difficulty level of the old titles, even in easy mode you can't play like that. That's why is dumbed down.

Old Rainbow six titles don't allow this style of gameplay even in easy mode. Easy mode still one shot one kill.

[Jerry]

What part of "normal mode isn't realistic mode" do you not understand, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? Want old school R6 action in the Vegas games, you play realistic mode not normal. Giving an OPTION to play in dumb dumb mode isn't dumbing down, because it is an OPTION. Want to play like old school R6? Then take off normal mode. Herp derp, idiot.

No need to reply either idiot, especially if you still don't know what an "option", or "mode" is.

[Bola Satânica]

DELETED: SEE MY POST BELOW

[Dasbo]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Panic Fire:

A lot of misinformation in this thread.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Linblum:

Yep. No more Terrorist Hunt. Its literally CS:GO.

Terroist Hunt is confirmed and they had a working version of it at E3.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από HOTSHOT:

Siege looks like a good game tbh.

BUT

No matter how it's coming out: It will be A TERRIBLE Rainbow Six game.

Wrong franchise!

And no SP is the nail in the coffin, it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ridiculous. Not to mention the small maps. SMALL MAPS! Since when are rainbow Six maps just a basic house?! wtf?!

Single player has been confirmed by the devs. As well as terrorist hunt, and talks of a co op campaign though that may have been terrorist hunt.



Also just to throw this out there the game will also feature "Realistic" difficulty which features 1 to the head = dead.

How all of this stacks up is unkown.'

The biggest gripe seems to be about the UI which I agree is a mess. Need to bash it out in the alpha forums a bit more.

Lmao, if you call that hard or realistic...

[HooksGURU]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από SomeGuy:

At least it's not as bad as Vegas.

^^This

[Bola Satânica]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από God:

What part of "normal mode isn't realistic mode" do you not understand, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? Want old school R6 action in the Vegas games, you play realistic mode not normal. Giving an OPTION to play in dumb dumb mode isn't dumbing down, because it is an OPTION. Want to play like old school R6? Then take off normal mode. Herp derp, idiot.

No need to reply either idiot, especially if you still don't know what an "option", or "mode" is.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από God:

LMAO at people trying to say Vegas 1 and 2 were dumbed down tactics and gameplay wise. You could not run and gun in Vegas 1 and 2 like you obviously can in this new turd. Guns had recoil and it was still one shot to an unarmored head=dead.

I felt that i needed to explain myself better, to maybe elucidate you.

The original franchise concept was meant to be played in that way, in a way that death would be unforgiving. It did not matter the difficulty that you wanna play, if you get one high caliber shot to the chest, you're dead. That was one of the biggest appeals of this franchise.

Since Lockdown you get the option to play the game not the way that was meant to be played by the original franchise concept. Since Lockdown you get the option to change the rules of death. To change one of the main concepts of this franchise.

Yes, of course it is an option. But it is an option that opened space for the users to dumb down their experience. Even in realistic, i don't feel the same realism that older titles showed even in easy mode.

But all the above is just one of multiples the aspects of the newer titles(Lockdown, Vegas, Vegas 2 and Siege) that made the community feel that the franchise was being dumbed down.

The newer titles don't have:

1 - Persistent universal rules of death("one shot one kill"). DUMBED DOWN.

2 - In dept planning mode. DUMBED DOWN.

3 - Most times multiple entry points to choose while having a free non-linear experience. DUMBED DOWN.

4 - The older titles felt really near a sandbox game. The newer ones are just too linear. DUMBED DOWN.

5 - Operatives management system, squad building. Persistent characters death. Again DUMBED DOWN.

I can't make myself more clear, there is a lot of videos and information in this thread. A lot of veterans around here telling us what we've been listening and discussing at every new release of this franchise since Lockdown.

This Franchise has been constantly dumbed down since Lockdown, and we hardcore R6 fans know that.

Lockdown. Dumbed down.

Vegas. Dumbed down.

Vegas 2. Dumbed down.

Siege. The most dumbed down.

How hard is that for you to understand? it is written all over this thread, reddit and ubisoft forums.

And i don't need to offend nobody to prove that.

[Panic Fire]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bola Satânica:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από God:

What part of "normal mode isn't realistic mode" do you not understand, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? Want old school R6 action in the Vegas games, you play realistic mode not normal. Giving an OPTION to play in dumb dumb mode isn't dumbing down, because it is an OPTION. Want to play like old school R6? Then take off normal mode. Herp derp, idiot.

No need to reply either idiot, especially if you still don't know what an "option", or "mode" is.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από God:

LMAO at people trying to say Vegas 1 and 2 were dumbed down tactics and gameplay wise. You could not run and gun in Vegas 1 and 2 like you obviously can in this new turd. Guns had recoil and it was still one shot to an unarmored head=dead.

I felt that i needed to explain myself better, to maybe elucidate you.

The original franchise concept was meant to be played in that way, in a way that death would be unforgiving. It did not matter the difficulty that you wanna play, if you get one high caliber shot to the chest, you're dead. That was one of the biggest appeals of this franchise.

Since Lockdown you get the option to play the game not the way that was meant to be played by the original franchise concept. Since Lockdown you get the option to change the rules of death. To change one of the main concepts of this franchise.

Yes, of course it is an option. But it is an option that opened space for the users to dumb down their experience. Even in realistic, i don't feel the same realism that older titles showed even in easy mode.

But all the above is just one of multiples the aspects of the newer titles(Lockdown, Vegas, Vegas 2 and Siege) that made the community feel that the franchise was being dumbed down.

The newer titles don't have:

1 - Persistent universal rules of death("one shot one kill"). DUMBED DOWN.

2 - In dept planning mode. DUMBED DOWN.

3 - Most times multiple entry points to choose while having a free non-linear experience. DUMBED DOWN.

4 - The older titles felt really near a sandbox game. The newer ones are just too linear. DUMBED DOWN.

5 - Operatives management system, squad building. Persistent characters death. Again DUMBED DOWN.

I can't make myself more clear, there is a lot of videos and information in this thread. A lot of veterans around here telling us what we've been listening and discussing at every new release of this franchise since Lockdown.

This Franchise has been constantly dumbed down since Lockdown, and we hardcore R6 fans know that.

Lockdown. Dumbed down.

Vegas. Dumbed down.

Vegas 2. Dumbed down.

Siege. The most dumbed down.

How hard is that for you to understand? it is written all over this thread, reddit and ubisoft forums.

And i don't need to offend nobody to prove that.

Thats not true at all. You can even watch people playing through the orginal rainbow six as a run in gun on youtube.




For more fun heres a video of terrorist hunt with some of the new changes from alpha (you now must vault through breached walls rather than just walking through for instance)


http://www.ign.com/videos/2015/06/15/rainbow-six-siege-terrorist-hunt-gameplay

[v00d00m4n]

Thing i hate the most about Siege is this unrealistic crap when you can build walls from air and do a lot of other things without even proper animation, Oh and UI, its so cluttered and dumb-friendly so call of duty at hardcore mode feels like actually hardcore and realistic game comparing to this.

[v00d00m4n]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bola Satânica:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από God:

What part of "normal mode isn't realistic mode" do you not understand, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? Want old school R6 action in the Vegas games, you play realistic mode not normal. Giving an OPTION to play in dumb dumb mode isn't dumbing down, because it is an OPTION. Want to play like old school R6? Then take off normal mode. Herp derp, idiot.

No need to reply either idiot, especially if you still don't know what an "option", or "mode" is.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από God:

LMAO at people trying to say Vegas 1 and 2 were dumbed down tactics and gameplay wise. You could not run and gun in Vegas 1 and 2 like you obviously can in this new turd. Guns had recoil and it was still one shot to an unarmored head=dead.

I felt that i needed to explain myself better, to maybe elucidate you.

The original franchise concept was meant to be played in that way, in a way that death would be unforgiving. It did not matter the difficulty that you wanna play, if you get one high caliber shot to the chest, you're dead. That was one of the biggest appeals of this franchise.

Since Lockdown you get the option to play the game not the way that was meant to be played by the original franchise concept. Since Lockdown you get the option to change the rules of death. To change one of the main concepts of this franchise.

Yes, of course it is an option. But it is an option that opened space for the users to dumb down their experience. Even in realistic, i don't feel the same realism that older titles showed even in easy mode.

But all the above is just one of multiples the aspects of the newer titles(Lockdown, Vegas, Vegas 2 and Siege) that made the community feel that the franchise was being dumbed down.

The newer titles don't have:

1 - Persistent universal rules of death("one shot one kill"). DUMBED DOWN.

2 - In dept planning mode. DUMBED DOWN.

3 - Most times multiple entry points to choose while having a free non-linear experience. DUMBED DOWN.

4 - The older titles felt really near a sandbox game. The newer ones are just too linear. DUMBED DOWN.

5 - Operatives management system, squad building. Persistent characters death. Again DUMBED DOWN.

I can't make myself more clear, there is a lot of videos and information in this thread. A lot of veterans around here telling us what we've been listening and discussing at every new release of this franchise since Lockdown.

This Franchise has been constantly dumbed down since Lockdown, and we hardcore R6 fans know that.

Lockdown. Dumbed down.

Vegas. Dumbed down.

Vegas 2. Dumbed down.

Siege. The most dumbed down.

How hard is that for you to understand? it is written all over this thread, reddit and ubisoft forums.

And i don't need to offend nobody to prove that.

Well said!

But well, i actually liked Vegas, but not as Rainbow Six, i just pretended it was different game, whic was good, not as good as real R6 from Red Storm before Ubi took them over, but good.... however, when i tried to compare it to old R6 games i felt so sad :-(

Siege on the other hand not even good game if you dont think of it as R6.

And i really think that what supposed to be R6 patriots is turned out to be Division. I remember on bridge footage of R6 patriots and it looks exactly like bridge i saw in Division. They probably just gave away assets and all that was made so far to Massive and they reworked early version of R6 into third person new framchise. Ubi does such things a lot.

[Edge_Master]

but wat if rainbow six is not kill?