Should I play this game or original MoO2?

[e.b]

Something I am confused about is: MoO2 is widely loved and generally acknowledged as the best space 4x; the reviews for this newer MoO say that it is an almost exact copy-paste of the original game; and yet it gets "mixed" reviews...

I am puzzled about this and wondering how the game compares to MoO2 and if it's worthwhile buying this newer game or stick to the old one? Is this game a MoO2 with updated graphics or did they mess something up?

[artygame]

moo2

[Scytodes]

For the Small amount of hours I've played recently of MoO2 and the large amount of hours spent on MoO: CTS, they are not really nearly a copy-paste, it's the general gameplay remaining the same but it's still slightly different. You should try both if possible.

MoO2: Technically seems to be superior in the Tactical combat if you don't mind upgrading the ships every time you get a technology by yourself, and mind you, it's a bit old. Data about how to play the game isn't really given immediately, Right-click is your best friend so you can know what each thing is about, also some nice guides out there you can check.

MoO CTS: The best part about this game is certainly it's aesthetic part, it is simply beautiful. The real time Tactical Combat is ok, it does offer enough information that gets you to know how to start playing as you will it. As you may or may not know the game is no longer being updated by the original devs. However, Spud Dastardly and WhatisSol have been working on mods that actually put the game in an extremely well playable state. Modless CTS apparently is bug riddled and the worst part is you don't even see it.

Mods you should load (basically mandatory) for CTS:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=800155077
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1109736522
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1190572281

If you need to know anything else, just ask.

[Gez]

I'd recommend Stars in Shadow as game that has a gameplay much closer to Master of Orion 2. No starlanes, no real-time combat, everything is kept old school. Still lacking a few mechanisms from MoO2, though, such as spying, ship experience, and leaders.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/464880

MoO CTS has a lot of elements from MoO2, but it also has some elements from MoO3, notably the starlanes and real-time combat.

[e.b]

Thanks a lot for the recommendations! I wasn't aware of the mods so that helps a lot, I'll grab the game when it's on sale and will try it out. Stars in Shadow also looks very promising, I happened to stumble on it yesterday and will very likely grab it on one of the upcoming holiday sales too.

[pasa]

Unless you prefer those dumbified games that keep rolling out for the rewards-for-just breathing crowd, forget this and go for MOO2.

[Huitzilopochtli]

Originally posted by Scytodes:

For the Small amount of hours I've played recently of MoO2 and the large amount of hours spent on MoO: CTS, they are not really nearly a copy-paste, it's the general gameplay remaining the same but it's still slightly different. You should try both if possible.

MoO2: Technically seems to be superior in the Tactical combat if you don't mind upgrading the ships every time you get a technology by yourself, and mind you, it's a bit old. Data about how to play the game isn't really given immediately, Right-click is your best friend so you can know what each thing is about, also some nice guides out there you can check.

MoO CTS: The best part about this game is certainly it's aesthetic part, it is simply beautiful. The real time Tactical Combat is ok, it does offer enough information that gets you to know how to start playing as you will it. As you may or may not know the game is no longer being updated by the original devs. However, Spud Dastardly and WhatisSol have been working on mods that actually put the game in an extremely well playable state. Modless CTS apparently is bug riddled and the worst part is you don't even see it.

Mods you should load (basically mandatory) for CTS:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=800155077
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1109736522
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1190572281

If you need to know anything else, just ask.

thank you for the mod advice
I agree the new MOO graphics are beautiful.
what does CTS mean? crash to shelf?

[Gez]

Originally posted by RodentDung:

what does CTS mean? crash to shelf?

"Conquer the Stars". This game's full title is "Master of Orion: Conquer the Stars", so the abbreviation CTS is often used instead of the abbreviation MOO to avoid ambiguity with the original MOO from 1993.

The series is:
- Master of Orion (1993)
- Master of Orion II: Battle at Antares (1996, often referred to as MOO2, but never as BAA)
- Master of Orion 3 (2003, referred to as horrible trash garbage nobody likes)
- Master of Orion: Conquer the Stars (2016, referred to as MOO4, MOO 2016, or CTS)

[hernang.ortiz]

Both are great once you install the patches and proper mod. Both play better in shorter maps and quicker games. Moo2 has some rough micromanagement issues with fleets that modern moo doesnt have (refitting ships, especially with leaders on board, and large fleet battles). Modern moo however suffers from micromanagement of moving citizens between planets. Both games have great character even with the older game (excellent visuals for 1996)

[Huitzilopochtli]

Thanks Gez for the clarity.
I just bought this game now and downloaded it.

[Quincy_Morris]

I'm always cautious when people claim that a game needs X balance change to be "playable." Especially when the changes are seemingly so massive as with the balance mod. Can ya'll make the case for why the designers got it so wrong and random people on the internet got it so right to foundationally change the game (as they describe)

I've played a half dozen or so games and am apparently not smart enough to notice the imbalance. Though I will say the game feels too easy (been playing custom races.) And I do like the idea of smarter AI who build better ships or make more wise decisions. But I'm not sure about the pollution changes, buffing defensive structures or nerfing warpgates etc.

But maybe I'm too dumb to understand the necessary changes. Educate me.

[Scytodes]

Originally posted by [KRAG:

Canterlot Royal Guard]
I'm always cautious when people claim that a game needs X balance change to be "playable." Especially when the changes are seemingly so massive as with the balance mod. Can ya'll make the case for why the designers got it so wrong and random people on the internet got it so right to foundationally change the game (as they describe)

I've played a half dozen or so games and am apparently not smart enough to notice the imbalance. Though I will say the game feels too easy (been playing custom races.) And I do like the idea of smarter AI who build better ships or make more wise decisions. But I'm not sure about the pollution changes, buffing defensive structures or nerfing warpgates etc.

But maybe I'm too dumb to understand the necessary changes. Educate me.

Alright, to my advantage, I never said CTS is/was "literally unplayable" with no mods.

The devs didn't really get the game completely wrong, a buncha things are bad regarding custom races, quite a bunch of bugs that are rather unnoitceable and most importantly op races, if you play long enough you will realize Meklar and Silicoid are rather op in comparison to other AI.
The worst thing the devs did isn't even everything they got wrong, but forgetting the game and no longer updating it, with that nothing is gonna get fixed.

The mods proposed improve the quality of the game and nearly kills 100% of the bugs.

While the Mod balance overhaul changes makes it seem massive, they aren't, they are simply numerous, but it's impact isn't an absolute shakeup of everything that exists.

[Gopher]

https://store.steampowered.com/widget/984680/

this game is also a good 4x similar to MOO2

[Chrisme]

Don't listen to the hardcore MoO2 devouts who will not even give you proper arguments most of the time. MoO CtS is not a bad game. The mentioned mods help make it better even though the 5X mod changes a lot of vanilla stuff which irks the purist in me greatly.

Admittedly I haven't played MoO CtS in a while but that's because I have way too many games at this point. The game itself was not a disappointment for me (bought it on sale). The atmosphere is very good and the game was fully playable and remniscient of MoO2. However, the new battle system is not my cup of tea and kills a great part of the original game.
I did play Stars in Shadow on my laptop quite a bit during the last weeks though simply because my laptop can handle that.

Stars in Shadow is also worth its money but be aware that it's in an abandoned state as well as far as I can tell. Apparently the devs were forced to release it early (they still can be talked to on the steam game forum btw) and despite the great atmosphere it feels a bit bland (kind of similar to MoO CtS). Some things are just unfinished like certain minor race traits, I'm pretty sure that spying will never become part of the game either or anything else for that matter. Otherwise there would have been a proper expansion long ago (and not that sad excuse for an expansion that they are trying to sell for 5 bucks).

You can't really go wrong buying either or both games in my opinion.

[Gez]

SIS is not abandoned, you can check the development changelog here[stars-in-shadow.com]. Another expansion with a new empire is planned, with a complete revamp of the terraforming system.
The expansions by themselves don't add much because they put all the content in a game update, the expansion itself is only needed to play the new race but you can still have it as an AI empire without the DLC.
Spying will probably not ever make it, but that's by design, the developers don't seem to think spying makes sense in a space game since the various factions are completely different species. I can kind of see that (imagine a Bulrathi spy sneaking around in a Psilon facility, hoping his Psilon disguise will work...) though I figure in the high-tech societies of space empire, spying will be largely dematerialized and be more about stuff like SIGINT and hacking. (All these empires have interstellar communication networks, after all, that's how you can give order to remote fleets and colonies.)

[ashbery76]

Moo2 has not been the best space 4x for a long time.Several games are better including this.