Do different "types" of multi-tools have any actual combat advantage?

[MeltedLemonade]

So I can't find an answer, but do any of the different types (like normal, alien, experimental, royal, etc.) have any higher combat or other practical potential? Or do they just look cool and basically say "I have a rare and cool multi-tool"

[voidCaster]

In older versions I had the strong sense that Gek MTs had higher mining rates and Vy'keen MTs had higher weapon damage. In the newest version, I can tell you for an absolute certainty that Sentinel and Corrupted Sentinel MTs have higher mining rates (and slower heat up rates on the mining beam) AND higher damage. That's comparing Class C to Class C. I have yet to see better than a Class C MT in my current save.

[Jaggid Edje]

Each type of multi-tool has a different range of possible bonuses for +Damage. So yes, they all have a combat advantage or disadvantage.

Their damage bonus values, from best to worst by multi-tool type are:

Sentinel (the new ones): S class have a damage bonus anwhere from +25 to +50%
Alien: S-class have a damage bonus anywhere from +25 to +35%
Experimental/Royal;: S-class have a damage bonus anwhere from +15 to +25%
(Normal) Rifle: S-class have a damage bonus from +15 to +20%
(Normal) PIstol: Has no damage bonus

The other two bonus types that Multi-tools have are +mining and +Scanning, you can see the detailed bonus ranges of all types and classes of multi-tools here on the wiki[nomanssky.fandom.com]. Tip: Click the word "expand" beneath the table to see actual numerical values.

Also be aware that the +mining bonus, in the current game, is pretty much useless. +Damage bonuses are now just as effective at speeding up mining, so pretty much any multi-tool other than the standard pistol/rifle have about the same value when you add their +Damage and their +Mining.

Regarding what @tekmunkey said, the sentinel mining laser is actually identical to a regular mining laser. It has neither more damage nor lower heat generation.

BUT, you can put a regular mining laser on the multi-tool along with the sentinel mining laser...which basically doubles it's base mining damage and halves its heat generation. This is most certainly a bug. I expect them to remove the ability to install both on the new multi-tools in a future patch.

[frazzled]

I think the aliens have the highest combat damage potential.

Other MT's have advantages in other areas. Like Royal and Experimental are good at scanning, and Pistols are good at mining.

I've not tried a sentinel type yet.

[Jaggid Edje]

Originally posted by frazzled:

I think the aliens have the highest combat damage potential.

Not any more they don't. The new sentinel multi-tools leave them in the dust. See my post above for the specifics.

[voidCaster]

Originally posted by Jaggid Edje:

Regarding what @tekmunkey said, the sentinel mining laser is actually identical to a regular mining laser. It has neither more damage nor lower heat generation.

https://youtu.be/JIm0yX0Ufuo

[Jaggid Edje]

Did you read what I wrote about how stacking them together does double everything?

That's not a feature of the sentinel mining laser, that's an oversight by HG for letting you install the regular mining laser when the tool already has the sentinel one. You can bet they will eventually fix that in a game update, it just might take them a while.

The fact remains that the sentinel mining laser itself is exactly the same as the regular mining laser. The stat block in the game technology table file is identical, probably just a copy and paste.

[voidCaster]

Originally posted by Jaggid Edje:

That's not a feature of the sentinel mining laser, that's an oversight by HG for letting you install the regular mining laser when the tool already has the sentinel one. You can bet they will eventually fix that in a game update, it just might take them a while.

I stated in the video description that this was a problem. I got my first CS MT while chasing down my first Interceptor. I installed the mining laser straight away, then later found your post (was that in this thread or another one?) about how having them side-by-side is glitchy. I tried to remove the standard mining laser right then, and could not.

So how do you explain that 2, a Class B Sentinel Rifle, eats faster than 3, a Class B Gek Rifle?

I did some extra experimentation with heat-up times, and 2 and 3 have identical heat-up times. 2 definitely eats faster, though.

[Jaggid Edje]

Higher damage and mining bonus for the multi-tool type. Rifles and Pistols both suck for mining compared to Experimental, Royal, Alien and Sentinel tools because they dont' have as good of total of mining bonus + damage bonus.

Your test is also probably not properly scientifically controlled. You need to use exactly the same procedural upgrade modules for both for it to be an accurate test, seeing as procedural upgrade modules have variable stats. And you need to make sure your arrangement is identical (due to synergy bonuses) and use of supercharge slots is identical.

Fortunately you can pack up tech and move it between multi-tools, which makes doing a proper test easier than it used to be. But you do need to control all of those variables when testing.

Ultimately though, even if you did all of that proper control method, rifle isn't going to be as good at mining as the other multi-tool types for the reasons I already mentioned. It is, in fact, the very worst multi-tool for mining.

[voidCaster]

Originally posted by Jaggid Edje:

Higher damage and mining bonus for the multi-tool type. Rifles and Pistols both suck for mining compared to Experimental, Royal, Alien and Sentinel tools because they dont' have as good of total of mining bonus + damage bonus.

So you seem to be saying, now, that the Corrupted Sentinel MT does exactly what I said it would, but the actual laser module installed in it is technically the same stats as the basic laser in game mechanics... which is totally irrelevant.

Here's another error of mine you can correct: The sky is blue. My error, see is that the sky isn't really blue, it just looks that way to humans.

[Jaggid Edje]

There are other multi-tool types that could be better than the sentinel one for mining; all depending on the exact procedural generation bonuses you get. So I corrected you because you were wrong. The sentinel multi-tool will not necessarily be better than an alien, exotic, or royal multi-tool. That's a mathematical fact.

I corrected you because you were wrong. But then you went and compared it to a basic rifle, one of only two multi-tool types that will NOT be better than a sentinel, no matter the procgen values for bonuses. I mean, seriously? That's like trying to prove ME wrong when I say the sky is blue, by waiting until midnight to look outside.

[voidCaster]

Originally posted by Jaggid Edje:

That's like trying to prove ME wrong when I say the sky is blue, by waiting until midnight to look outside.

Midnight in your timezone or mine?

Originally posted by Jaggid Edje:

There are other multi-tool types that could be better than the sentinel one for mining; all depending on the exact procedural generation bonuses you get.

The sentinel multi-tool will not necessarily be better than an alien, exotic, or royal multi-tool. That's a mathematical fact.

^^ GREAT INFORMATION, THANK YOU!!!

Originally posted by Jaggid Edje:

But then you went and compared it to a basic rifle

I compared 2 Class-B Multi-Tools with no modifications except the standard mining laser itself, to prove the point I originally made which is: THE RACE THAT OWNS THE STATION WHERE YOU GOT THE MULTI-TOOL MAKES A DIFFERENCE IN ITS COMBAT AND MINING EFFICACY.

Which is literally the correct, true, and accurate answer to the question in the thread title.

Edit: Read on from Jaggid Edje

[Jaggid Edje]

Race does not matter one wit. Only the type of multi-tool and the procgen bonus values generated. You can find all multi-tool types in a system with any given race, and I have found multi-tools with near-max bonus for damage in systems for each of the races.

You are mistaking correlation for causation based on only a small amount of anecdotal experience.

[voidCaster]

That last bit is probably true. I wouldn't question it even with the video evidence.

Not sure what you mean by "all multi-tool types." There's a pistol and a rifle, right? Period. Then there's a Class Rating S/A/B/C.

How on Earth could you possibly know whether any given multi-tool had any given bonus for any given usage? I've been plagued by the inability to look at anything but the class since I first started playing NMS.

Finally on your first sentence: I don't believe you. I don't even think you're thinking about it.

There's a difference between what type of Starship you can find MOST OFTEN in any system, based on its race AND its conflict level, whether that ship is in a station or salvageable or in your freighter.

There's a difference between what type of Frigates you can hire MOST OFTEN in any system, based on its race AND its conflict level.

There's literally a difference between X and Y based on race and/or conflict level for absolutely everything in the game, except (according to you) the hidden stat bonuses on Multi-Tools... because that just doesn't follow logically.

Edit: Read on from Jaggid Edje

[Jaggid Edje]

Originally posted by tekmunkey:

There's a pistol and a rifle, right? Period.

Wrong, multi-tools have the the following types:

-(Normal) Pistol
-(Normal) Rifle
- Experimental
- Royal
- Alien
- Sentinel (the new one).

Each type has their own strengths and weakness in the categories of scanning, mining, and damage. Those are the 3 types of bonuses that multi-tools have, and each of those types have different, defined bonus ranges.

The reason I preface Pistol and Rifle with (Normal) is because there are also Experimental, Alien and Sentinel type multi-tools in both pistol and rifle design from an appearance standpoint, but for those types, pistol vs. rifle does not actually make any difference other than how they look, and how your character holds them.

Originally posted by tekmunkey:

How on Earth could you possibly know whether any given multi-tool had any given bonus for any given usage? I've been plagued by the inability to look at anything but the class since I first started playing NMS.

Because I mod the game, which means I'm looking inside the game files themselves. Additionally, you can view the exact bonuses that any multi-tool you own has by doing some basic math with just core tech installed, or if you want to avoid the math step, by looking in the save game editor.

Originally posted by tekmunkey:

There's a difference between what type of Starship you can find MOST OFTEN in any system, based on its race AND its conflict level, whether that ship is in a station or salvageable or in your freighter.

This is true (regarding race, conflict level is not relevant)
And can be seen in the game files I mention above, not just anecdotally.

Originally posted by tekmunkey:

There's a difference between what type of Frigates you can hire MOST OFTEN in any system, based on its race AND its conflict level.

This is not true. Even though many players make claims otherwise based on their own anecdotal experience.

[voidCaster]

Originally posted by Jaggid Edje:

Originally posted by tekmunkey:

There's a difference between what type of Frigates you can hire MOST OFTEN in any system, based on its race AND its conflict level.

This is not true. Even though many players make claims otherwise based on their own anecdotal experience.

!!!

I swear, in a court of law and under penalty of perjury, that in NO Korvax system have i ever seen ANY freighters but Exploration (primary) and Support (secondary) and Combat (with Combat being VERY RARE in low-conflict systems), and in NO Gek system have I ever seen ANY freighters but Industrial/p and Support/s and Combat/variable. I have absolutely NEVER encountered a Mercantile one.

In my current savegame, I literally had to get an Organic Frigate and experiment with feedings until I got a Mercantile rating over 10. Last savegame I just sighed every time the Expeditions menu had more than a single 2-star-or-less mercantile expo.

I guess that doesn't stand up against testimony from an eyewitness to the actual code XD