MegaFauna *Warning* Spoiler Questions

[Skorne Tet'Zu]

I know I should just jump in and take my chances... but this game is Very UnForgiving :). So I'd rather learn from the Trials of Others :).

So... I just built a Dream Aerial... and I guess I'm now ready to go after MegaFauna. The first thing I noticed was Messages about my Fleet having no Room; which means to get this MegaFauna I need to get rid of some of my Frigate Fleet. Currently All but 4 are 'S' Class Frigates... the other 4 are 'A' class. 3 Support Ships (1 ea. for Science, Trading and Mining), and the 4th is a Science Ship.

Personally... I dislike getting rid of any of them; I've had Most since 'C' Class (but did buy a couple of 'B' Classes). Anyways... with that information... here is my delimma:

Which ships should I Dismiss? The 'A' Classes seem the obvious choice... but if the MegaFauna are not Support Ships (or Science ships) I would end up regretting that move. My Fleet is made up of 4 Each; Industrial, Science and Trade; 8 Support ships, and 10 Combat Ships. This allows me to build Mission Specific Fleets with 2 Industry OR Science OR Trade; accompanied by 2 Combat and 1 Support ship. So I'm concerned about dismissing ships, but not being able to replace them because of "WhatEver" regarding the MegaFauna.

Sorry for the Long Read... but hopefully that's enough info to give me some good advice... Tips... Any Information I'm going to wish I had before making any Final Decisions.

Advanced Thanx!!!

[Jaggid Edje]

I do not recall that ever being the accepted belief. Maybe a theory one or two people came up with and discussed, but definitely never 'accepted'.

The accepted belief that I recall, which remains true today, is that you need to succeed on each encounter to get the loot, which is where the point total comes in, but once you have enough points to succeed 100%, there's no benefit of adding additional frigates.

I'm going to test it. I've made 3 copies of the exact same save game, and will send out frigates on the EXACT same expeditions, but in one test I'll use 5 frigates of the specialized type, on one I will use 5 support, and in the 3rd I will do what I normally do which is one specialty, and however many support I need to push the total fleet stats high enough to succeed on all encounters (which is never 5 frigates total when frigates are ranked up).

Results won't be in for about 8 hours (that was the longest of the missions I choose).

[Jaggid Edje]

It occurred to me that I didn't need to wait 8 hours, all I needed to do was put steam in offline mode and set my PC clock ahead and I could collect the loot now.

The results are in and it is not correct that having 5 of the same frigate increases your loot. You get the same exact loot regardless of whether you have 5 frigates total or not, much less 5 of the same. As long as you don't fail any of the encounters.

Here are the expeditions that were available on all 3 of my test saves (the benefit of copying the save for the test being that I got the EXACT same list of available missions. I did only the top 3.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2961050298

Here is the Loot (minus the rust and frigate fuel) awarded by the expedition sent out with 5 specialty frigates for each mission, choosing the frigate types that specialized in that mission type:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2961050311

And here's the loot awarded when I sent out less than 5 frigates on each mission and did not select the same type of frigate, but rather used 1 specialized and then 2 or 3 support (except for the balanced mission where I did 3 support):
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2961050327

As you can see, the loot is exactly, 100%, the same. It's identical, down to the quantity of each reward. I also tested 5 support for every one of the expeditions, but didn't bother screenshotting the rewards. Because again, they were identical.

The only difference in sending out 5 of the same type of frigate is that you use more fuel (unless you use 5 support, obviously).

[Azure Fang]

Автор сообщения: Mr. Bufferlow

Автор сообщения: Jaggid Edje

I've seen you say that in a lot of different threads on this topic, and I'm curious what your source of information is for that belief?

You are literally the only person I've ever seen make this claim, and I don't see anything in the game's expedition reward tables to indicate it is the case, nor have I personally observed such an affect.

I'm not saying you're wrong, by the way. I like to dig into the game and understand how it works, though, so I would like to know what you are basing that belief on so I can investigate it as well.

That was the accepted knowledge when they were first introduced. It kind of makes sense that a higher total point count for a specific area (like industrial) is going to produce better results.

That said, like most of the features of the game, it becomes more of geek out factor then anything of merit. Does it really matter if your adjacent bonus on warp distance gets you 6010 ly versus 6005 ly? If HG got into the weeds and made sure that not taking the bonus resulted in 6010 ly versus 5099 ly then it might be a relevant factor. That also supposes they would control system distances so it would really put a damper if you were always just short of the next available systems by not taking the bonus.

Even so, when you look at the distances needed to travel to most popular galactic locations, a few hundred light years makes no real difference most of the time.

Same with MTs. Is 21,000 DPS really a major difference from 22,000 DPS? Either is way overkill for what you need to be successful with sentinels. I get that it is fun to geek out and work to maximize stats but it has less to do with actual game play and more of a bragging rights scenario.

And in the Warframe community, it was accepted knowledge for years that Nekros's Desecrate cannot generate credits, even though it always could. It's currently accepted knowledge that Mesa's Peacemaker can't get headshots even though it procs an arcane that only activates on headshots. Both pieces of misinformation are persistently reinforced by a handful of wiki editors and a wiki admin that bury their heads in the sand and revert edits in the face of hard, reproduceable proof. "Accepted knowledge" is often just the opinion of a loud or persistent few. And, considering some of the drama around the NMS wiki, the same could be said within this very community.

Expedition distance is the primary factor in rewards. Longer expedition = more rolls on the reward table. Type might be a factor; I want to wait until MBINCompiler updates to the newest experimental before I unpack again to confirm, but I could be convinced to unpack early. Aside from that, the only other modifier for rewards is the presence of a living frigate. Nothing else has bearing; proc-gen'd rewards are randomly seeded, and all rewards have set values and ranges in the tables. Stats and stat spread affect mission success and might affect roll success, but they don't affect quality of rewards.

As to the 21 vs. 22, sure it's geek posturing. But that's a poor, yet apropos, analogy as the comparison was made to point out that the 21 was inefficiently configured for a thread showing off strength, while the 22 was trying to point out that the OP could get even stronger if they configured their MT right. Initial observation vs. accurate information.

[Jaggid Edje]

@Azure FAng, I'm not sure what you meant in that middle paragraph. Type of encounter is definitely a factor (it's in the expedition reward tables), but type of frigate sent is not, which seems clear from the reward table, but also confirmed by the test I did above.

[Azure Fang]

Автор сообщения: Jaggid Edje

@Azure FAng, I'm not sure what you meant in that middle paragraph. Type of encounter is definitely a factor (it's in the expedition reward tables), but type of frigate sent is not, which seems clear from the reward table, but also confirmed by the test I did above.

By the second paragraph, I mean this:

Every so many lightyears of distance, one "log entry" is added to the end result which comes with a roll on the reward table. The longer the expedition in LY, the more logs, the more rewards. Not sure what the cut is, but I'm presuming it's one roll every 250LY as that's the fuel rating calculation of the frigates themselves.

For frigate type, you're right. Except for Living Frigates. You cannot get log corruptions and thus Psychonic Eggs/Spawning Sacs without having a LF present in the expedition team. Their presence adds a substitution chance to replace a rolled reward with a log corruption.

As to expedition type, that's why I said I wasn't sure. I haven't dug enough into the expedition reward tables to see if they're separated by expedition type.

[Jaggid Edje]

Автор сообщения: Azure Fang

For frigate type, you're right. Except for Living Frigates. You cannot get log corruptions and thus Psychonic Eggs/Spawning Sacs without having a LF present in the expedition team. Their presence adds a substitution chance to replace a rolled reward with a log corruption.

I assumed that Living vs. Regular frigates is a distinction we are all aware of; only reason I didn't mention that. I have 100% living frigates on one of my active saves, and I very much regret it; I do not need all those frackin' eggs. LOL

[Azure Fang]

Автор сообщения: Jaggid Edje

Автор сообщения: Azure Fang

For frigate type, you're right. Except for Living Frigates. You cannot get log corruptions and thus Psychonic Eggs/Spawning Sacs without having a LF present in the expedition team. Their presence adds a substitution chance to replace a rolled reward with a log corruption.

I assumed that Living vs. Regular frigates is a distinction we are all aware of; only reason I didn't mention that. I have 100% living frigates on one of my active saves, and I very much regret it; I do not need all those frackin' eggs. LOL

Hey, I'd rather have them to convert into nanites by selling the upgrades than getting ANOTHER stack of Activated Indium

[Skorne Tet'Zu]

I dislike interrupting this conversation with a menial question; a Student of NMS 101 speaking with Tenured Professors :)... because this information I'm getting is Awesome; Questions I hadn't thought to ask... so... Major Thanx for that :).

But on a 'Slightly' Smaller Scale ;0... so I created the Dream Aerial, and received the message my Fleet was full. So I Dismissed 4 ships, and got the message (to the effect of) enter HyperSpace... which I did; and my ship began Scanning Frequencies until I came upon a MegaFauna. At some point I got information leading me to believe I can do this once per system. As such... I've entered a new system... but no messages; I entered HyperSpace, but still no Message or Scanning or MegaFauna. (Note: the Dream Aerial was on my Frieghter)... I then moved it to My Ship... but still nothing happened. Figuring the Dream Aerial would only work once, I created a second one... but still nothing.

So... my question (which I probably could have just asked at the beginning (grin))... How do you get more MegaFauna?!? Is it just the Luck of the Draw... or is there more to it?

Advanced Thanx!!!

And again... the Info in this Thread... Awesome!!! And the Work Put into it (I'm looking at you Jaggid)... Ridiculous... and Massively Informative!!!

But seriously... Everyone's input... Very Helpful... Thanx Mates!!!

[Jaggid Edje]

THe dream aerial only works one time, and that's it. You can delete it after you get that one Living Frigate using it. It's a one-time-per save thing as well, so making more isn't effective.

After you get the one from the Dream Aerial, you need to use anomaly detectors and then pulse until you get the message for Cosmic Megafauna/Whalesong. Do not leave pulse if you get any other anomaly detection message; it will keep detecting new anomalies as long as you remain in pulse.
Cosmic Megafauna/Whalesong is the message for Living Frigates, so once you get that message, you leave pulse and grab it.

Also, just to clarify, though I said you 'need' to use anomaly detectors, you can actually find them when pulsing without having used an anomaly detector.....but the rate of encounters without the anomaly detector is abysmmal, so I wouldn't recommend farming them that way.

And yes, you can only get a single Living Frigate per system. (The one you got from using the Dream Aerial does count for the one for that system, just to confirm that).

One last point, in case you aren't aware of how to get anomaly detectors, shooting asteroids is the quickest way....and it's not quick. They have a horribly low drop rate.

A lot of people get a couple from asteroids and then use one of the item duping methods to make more because of that. I can't expand on item duping methods though, because I'm not one of those people (I honestly just don't know the specifics of exactly how to dupe. I'm not interested in doing it, so have never investigated).

[Azure Fang]

Автор сообщения: Jaggid Edje

THe dream aerial only works one time, and that's it. You can delete it after you get that one Living Frigate using it. It's a one-time-per save thing as well, so making more isn't effective.

After you get the one from the Dream Aerial, you need to use anomaly detectors and then pulse until you get the message for Cosmic Megafauna/Whalesong. Do not leave pulse if you get any other anomaly detection message; it will keep detecting new anomalies as long as you remain in pulse.
Cosmic Megafauna/Whalesong is the message for Living Frigates, so once you get that message, you leave pulse and grab it.

Also, just to clarify, though I said you 'need' to use anomaly detectors, you can actually find them when pulsing without having used an anomaly detector.....but the rate of encounters without the anomaly detector is abysmmal, so I wouldn't recommend farming them that way.

And yes, you can only get a single Living Frigate per system. (The one you got from using the Dream Aerial does count for the one for that system, just to confirm that).

One last point, in case you aren't aware of how to get anomaly detectors, shooting asteroids is the quickest way....and it's not quick. They have a horribly low drop rate.

A lot of people get a couple from asteroids and then use one of the item duping methods to make more because of that. I can't expand on item duping methods though, because I'm not one of those people (I honestly just don't know the specifics of exactly how to dupe. I'm not interested in doing it, so have never investigated).

And just to elaborate on some points Jaggid mentioned:

Not only can you only get one living frigate per system, but that frigate is unique to that system. Much like derelict freighters, the seed of a living frigate is directly tied to the system, so if someone reports finding a specific frigate in a specific system, that is the ONLY living frigate that can be found there.

As Jaggid said, the Dream Aerial is only useful to you once. However, you can give it away to someone else if you feel so inclined and it will work for them if they haven't used one yet.

As to Anomaly Detectors, there are also mods that allow you to craft them. I maintain one such mod. However, especially after today's experimental patch, many mods may not be safe to use. If you decide to go the modding route, wait a few weeks for mods to be updated.

[Skorne Tet'Zu]

As always... GREAT Info... thanx Mates!!!

And thank You for Not Telling me how to Dupe them (Too Tempting); I'm wayy too new to this game for Cheats and Mods (No Judgement; I'll get to them eventually (LoL)... but not just yet :)> ). Besides... I blast Asteroids often (for Tritanium and Silver); so I've got 3 Stacks of those Anomaly Locators; I thought I was saving them for 'When' I was ready for Derelict Freighters... but now I've got an even better use for them... *Woot*

Oh.... and BIG Thanx for explaining how to use the Locator: I know how I Think, and I Guarantee I would have been posting here eventually, that they are only finding other things - LoL :)

Автор сообщения: Azure Fang

...Not only can you only get one living frigate per system, but that frigate is unique to that system. Much like derelict freighters, the seed of a living frigate is directly tied to the system, so if someone reports finding a specific frigate in a specific system, that is the ONLY living frigate that can be found there.
....

Ohhh... That Sucks!!! It's Kind of Cool Though, and if this Universe wasn't so Hugh it would Really Suck... but still Kind of Cool... the Race is On. ROFL!!!

Again... Thanx Mates... Great Info; time to Start Building a New Fleet :)

EDIT: Doh! I've got 3 Stacks of Walker Brains... only 16 Anomaly Detectors LoL... but still a Good Start; guess I'll be Blasting a Lot More Astroids - LoL :D

[Skorne Tet'Zu]

Автор сообщения: Azure Fang

...Not only can you only get one living frigate per system, but that frigate is unique to that system. Much like derelict freighters, the seed of a living frigate is directly tied to the system, so if someone reports finding a specific frigate in a specific system, that is the ONLY living frigate that can be found there.
...

Speaking of Which... Is there a way to know if 'The' MegaFauna has been taken from a system? Obviously, if I Discover the System, I'm Good to Go... but if I enter a System that was Discovered by someone else; is there a way to know? Otherwise... I could be Pulsing through space for Eternity... (Okay... Too Dramatic)... For a While :).

[Jaggid Edje]

Автор сообщения: Skorne Tet'Zu

Speaking of Which... Is there a way to know if 'The' MegaFauna has been taken from a system? Obviously, if I Discover the System, I'm Good to Go... but if I enter a System that was Discovered by someone else; is there a way to know? Otherwise... I could be Pulsing through space for Eternity... (Okay... Too Dramatic)... For a While :).

You can claim one living frigate system for YOU. What other players have or have not done in that system is irrelevent. So just track which systems you claimed them in.

Edit: Forgot to mention, you also won't be 'pulsing for eternity' even if it is a system that you have previously claimed a Living Frigate in. You can still trigger it, you can still even talk to it, you can still even use the dialogue and button to add it to your fleet.
You just won't actually get another frigate if you already have that one.

[Skorne Tet'Zu]

LOL... Well When You Put it That Way ... :).

That's pretty much what Azure stated... I just took it differently. Very Cool... and Very Very Helpful!!!

Thanx Mate!!!

[Skorne Tet'Zu]

Has this ever happened?!? >;(

I went into Pulse, Activated Locator, passed a 'Ton' of Anomalies, then finally got a WhaleSong. I come out of Pulse, and there are Two MegaFauna; and then suddenly... they both disappear. So I enter Pulse again (same system)... activated "Another" Locator, flew for a while... got another WhaleSong... came out of Pulse; this time only one MegaFauna... but it doesn't contact me :(... I flew around him for a while... Rammed him once or twice (grin)... but nothing. He just floats through space quietly :(.

I'm now out Two Locators... and No MegaFauna to show for it :(. And I have Definitely not been in this system before; It was Discovered by someone else 2 weeks ago... but all the Planets were discovered by Me Today.