Questioning the Role of Mods in Expeditions and Gaming Integrity

[Ankido]

Please understand that I have immense respect for No Man's Sky, as it's arguably the best space simulator/game of our time, although opinions may vary on this matter.

My concern lies with the concept of expeditions. What's the purpose of engaging in expeditions if you can easily download a mod to obtain the rewards? It makes me question why I should go through these expeditions if they don't introduce anything genuinely new or groundbreaking. Are these expeditions solely for the achievement?

I personally wish that Expeditions were more akin to how Diablo seasons are structured, where you can't cheat to obtain items. While I can choose not to use mods and experience the expedition as intended, it feels somewhat lackluster. It's almost as if I'm starting from scratch and following instructions I've already completed in the game over the years.

[Ankido]

Guyver8님이 먼저 게시:

i'm confused AGAIN...
OP uses mods - no judgement here
OP uses a mod to get expedition rewards they didn't get in-game - again no judgement
...but then OP wants to talk about 'cheating with mods' and changes to the game to block/police mods?
why? it's a casual sandbox game, play it how you want to and don't be worrying about how others want to play
as for the 'cheating and cheaters' talk ...i'm too old for that 'school yard' rubbish, it's not a competitive game and if it was i wouldn't have bought it

@OP:
1) expeditions aren't just a 'season', it's marketing strategy that helps to promote new sales which is the only way (other than shop merc) that HG makes money from this game so it needs to always cater to new players as well as existing ones
2) you're an adult, why you would need someone to police a sandbox game for you is beyond me ...but you're advocating that the policing should be for everyone ...not cool

I want to clarify my perspective without feeling like I'm teaching a class.

I am actually a supporter of mods and believe they can enhance games by adding new features and improvements, driven by the community's creativity.
The main point of this discussion isn't about mods but how they interact with expeditions.
I'm genuinely curious about the purpose of expeditions in No Man's Sky.
I hold a deep appreciation for No Man's Sky and find it endlessly engaging.
I hope this clears up the concept we're discussing here. It revolves around expeditions, which are designed for new players and marketed as a way to provide extra content for those who have already played the game. I've heard your perspectives, but I feel there's still some misunderstanding.

No Man's Sky is primarily a single-player game, and while cheats are allowed (and I don't equate mods with cheats), there's a specific mod that essentially allows you to obtain expedition rewards without participating in the expeditions. This raises questions about the purpose of expeditions. I understand that as an adult, I have choices, but my main focus remains on why expeditions exist.

To illustrate, I see expeditions as somewhat akin to Minecraft modpacks with quests: you receive missions, complete them, and receive rewards. However, it feels like there's little incentive for creativity or the introduction of genuinely new content. In essence, it replicates what we're already doing in a regular playthrough. It doesn't feel rewarding when you can acquire the same rewards without engaging in expeditions. I hope this explanation is clearer, even for those who might need a simpler explanation.

I understand the point that I have a choice, but even when I choose to complete an expedition, it still doesn't provide that sense of satisfaction or reward that I'm looking for.

[Teratus]

Don't care if other people cheat, so long as it doesn't impact me or my experience.

I'd rather do things legit myself but that's just me.

[Princess_Daystar]

Ankido님이 먼저 게시:

lotsa words

it really shouldn't matter at all to you if a mod like that exists.

And yes, expeditions could be done better, but your wording of the post and your continued comments on the topic make it seem like your problem stems from mods only.

If you are trying to discuss how expeditions could be better, there isnt a reason to bring mods up at all.

[Kuma]

Expeditions are nothing more than fun ways to start a new playthrough.

They are designed for people that enjoy completing objectives and starting fresh, if you are only doing the expedition because of the rewards you will always be disappointed as it is the journey that matters.

[UncreativelyNamed]

Ankido님이 먼저 게시:

No Man's Sky is primarily a single-player game, and while cheats are allowed (and I don't equate mods with cheats), there's a specific mod that essentially allows you to obtain expedition rewards without participating in the expeditions. This raises questions about the purpose of expeditions. I understand that as an adult, I have choices, but my main focus remains on why expeditions exist.

I don't have a dog in this "fight" because I'm pretty sure I'll never do an expedition. They just seem like extended Nexus missions to me, I don't particularly like being in a playing environment with other people, and I'm not generally interested in the rewards the expeditions give, so...meh.

That said, my impression is that the expeditions are one method of keeping players engaged, particularly people who don't play for a while and then come back to play when they know there's a new expedition. I've not been playing the game for long, only since April, but for both expeditions that have run since I've been playing, I've seen folks on this forum saying they've come back after "X" amount of time to play the expedition and when they've finished it they'll probably be off again until the next update and/or expedition.

If you play regularly and do the expeditions, you get a little treat. If you come back to play for an expedition and do it, you also get a little treat. (Sure, you can also get the treats by using a save editor or whatever, but people who return to the game for expeditions obviously enjoy doing the expeditions, so they're not going to do that.) Those who don't enjoy doing the expeditions but want the rewards from them can get them if they're willing to use a save editor. And those, like me, who don't or probably won't like expeditions and who don't particularly care about the rewards can just continue on our merry way, playing as we want.

Winners all around. I don't see a problem here.

[RustyNail]

Ankido님이 먼저 게시:

The main point of this discussion isn't about mods but how they interact with expeditions.
I'm genuinely curious about the purpose of expeditions in No Man's Sky.

Simple: we play the expeditions if we want, else we can ignore them, or play a portion of them. The purpose is up to you to determine for yourself. There's no direct tie-in with the main game - where once again, you can do the missions or skip them. It's up to you.

Mods don't interact with the expeditions, or the main game, unless you decide they are something you would want/like to use.

[Guyver8]

Ankido님이 먼저 게시:

I want to clarify my perspective without feeling like I'm teaching a class.

...and i'm very glad i don't feel like i'm in class, cos i'd hate to have to put my hand up and say 'teacher, your perspective is wrong' Lol
...but wait ...allow me to clarify

Ankido님이 먼저 게시:

it feels like there's little incentive for creativity or the introduction of genuinely new content. In essence, it replicates what we're already doing in a regular playthrough.

who the heck said expeditions was supposed to add new gameplay mechanics (i don't think HG did), from all the blurb HG put out with the introduction of expeditions i took it to mean 'new time limited multi-stepped community missions' (pretty much nexus missions on steroids) each expedtion has a theme, a story and tasks ...inevitably some will be better than others, but they are all new content, it's your expectations that's led you to believe that they should be more than wot they are ...heck it even says it on the tin ...they're called 'expeditions' not 'updates' (which btw we get regularly anyways and does usually contain new content and/or new gameplay mechanics), so why would you expect the expedition to 'double down' on wot they already give us in updates? especially given that they usually release at the same period

Ankido님이 먼저 게시:

It doesn't feel rewarding when you can acquire the same rewards without engaging in expeditions. I hope this explanation is clearer, even for those who might need a simpler explanation.
I understand the point that I have a choice, but even when I choose to complete an expedition, it still doesn't provide that sense of satisfaction or reward that I'm looking for.

imo any disappointment, lack of satisfaction or reward can for 'the most part' be attributed to the assumption that expeditions are (or should be) like updates, simple as that
as for why expeditions exist? i already addressed that in my earlier post but again, it's a market strategy to galvanise existing owners to play the expeditions which in turn showcases the game and different aspects of the gameplay to spark interest in HG's intended sales market...
sort of like 'wow look at that ...buy it now, while it's on sale' and the best part imo is it doesn't hit new buyers with a hefty pricetag or cost existing owners anything (so sort of an 'ethical' marketing ploy?!!!!?) bear in mind new sales are very important to HG cos that's wot pays for our free updates and (and more importantly for HG) their salaries
NB. all the above is just my opinion, which could be viewed as a load of rubbish, but then again...

@UncreativelyNamed: Lol leave the dog tied-up to a post outside (just jesting ...say no to animal cruelty), turn MP off and dive into an expedition, true some won't be to your taste ...but wot about the ones that you would've enjoyed? (but if you decide to go for it, wait a week or so on this one, till the remaining bugs are killed off)

[Liralen]

RustyNail님이 먼저 게시:

Liralen님이 먼저 게시:

If you use cheats to remove the challenge, it's pretty much a self-fulfilling prophecy for making the game less fun (sometimes, not always), which caused me to avoid cheaters in D1.

There's no form of "self-gifting" in NMS that can cause _any_ tangible harm any other player's game, or their enjoyment of the game. Any harm that is perceived, is just that: it's imagined.

Oh, I completely agree. I never said it did harm other players in NMS. You just imagined that, or have never played Diablo.

However, cheating did harm other players in Diablo 1, because PvP was always active. Back then, there was a meme "You know you've played too much Diablo when your legit character can kill a cheater".

I've played Diablo 3 and 4 Seasons, both of which are somewhat analogous to NMS Expeditions. If cheating is allowed in either one of them, I wouldn't know.

I just thought the person I responded to was waxing overly nostalgic about the Diablo series version of Seasons, where mods are not allowed and cheating will get you banned. Then comparing to it to NMS Expeditions, where mods are always allowed, then complaining that they were not any fun, compared to D3 and D4 Seasons.

I pretty much agree that D3 Seasons were fun BECAUSE there are tangible rewards (not just cosmetics) that carry over to your non-Season toons. In D4's first Season, it's only cosmetics, which I could care less about. It was just regrinding a lot of things we had already achieved before.

NMS Expeditions are somewhat similar, in that there used to be tangible rewards other than cosmetics.

What is NOT similar is that using mods to blow through Diablo 3 and 4 Seasons is not allowed, whereas NMS Expetitions do allow it. Then to complain about it? I just don't get it.

[Jouchebag]

Liralen님이 먼저 게시:

NMS Expeditions are somewhat similar, in that there used to be tangible rewards other than cosmetics.

I'm willing to bet Hello Games has a 5-year-plan for NMS that involves carefully trickling in content to keep old players coming back (to complain) and also hooking new players with a promise of an ever-evolving game (who eventually smash into reality and become the old, complaining player).

They can't add really cool stuff with every update or expedition or they risk creating higher expectations.

[darknessanubis]

I am relatively new to the game. I started playing a couple days before the last expedition started. What I find is the expeditions send me out to do things that I haven't done before or look for ways to do things I haven't thought of before. I really enjoy that. The 2 expeditions I have done so far really taught me to be a better player.

As for mods I don't generally use them. I really don't like using them in any game. I'd rather accomplish whatever I manage to do for myself. That however is my choice. I also do not play in multiplayer.

I think in multiplayer the team members need to decide if mods are ok or not and then stick to it. It would really suck to have one player using them and the others getting mad about it.

I have seen the whole mods argument come up in so many game forums it is ridiculous and it always seems to boil down to people on a high horse on either side demanding the other side play the game the way they want them to play it. It is blatantly absurd.

Everyone should just play how they find the game fun and leave everyone else to make their own decisions.

[Jouchebag]

darknessanubis님이 먼저 게시:

I have seen the whole mods argument come up in so many game forums it is ridiculous and it always seems to boil down to people on a high horse on either side demanding the other side play the game the way they want them to play it. It is blatantly absurd.

I've never seen people who mod or cheat demanding the vanilla players also mod or cheat.

What you're describing is exclusively the vanilla players complaining that someone has something they don't.

[darknessanubis]

Jouchebag님이 먼저 게시:

darknessanubis님이 먼저 게시:

I have seen the whole mods argument come up in so many game forums it is ridiculous and it always seems to boil down to people on a high horse on either side demanding the other side play the game the way they want them to play it. It is blatantly absurd.

I've never seen people who mod or cheat demanding the vanilla players also mod or cheat.

What you're describing is exclusively the vanilla players complaining that someone has something they don't.

Actually where you see it is in games that actively do not allow Mods. Then you see people demanding mods trying to browbeat players that do not use mods as being sub optimal players and dragging everyone else down.

[Jouchebag]

darknessanubis님이 먼저 게시:

Jouchebag님이 먼저 게시:

I've never seen people who mod or cheat demanding the vanilla players also mod or cheat.

What you're describing is exclusively the vanilla players complaining that someone has something they don't.

Actually where you see it is in games that actively do not allow Mods. Then you see people demanding mods trying to browbeat players that do not use mods as being sub optimal players and dragging everyone else down.

Let's separate modding and cheating. Modding doesn't mean cheating but it can be used to cheat.

A request for modding support is not browbeating anyone. People who use mods do it because it makes the game better for them and while they certainly can be vocal about their support I've not seen anyone denigrate someone for not modding unless they are complaining about something a mod fixes. The very idea of using a mod is the freedom of choice. It would be immediately hypocritical to force your choice on someone else.

Not that it doesn't happen, but that's not a common feeling or belief. That's a outlying crazy person who lacks self-awareness and we treat those people as individual cases. I frequent a lot of the most commonly modded games (Everything on the Nexus' Top 20 list, really) and there isn't a group or constituency of people shoving mods in other people's faces.

Plenty of suggestions like "Well, you aren't the only person who hates that feature, there's a mod for that." which isn't browbeating.

But there's an army of people who will pop up and say "Play the game as it was made! Mods are for losers!" or "No, we don't need mods! Because... stuff!" Vanilla players are way more entrenched than modders because they are afraid their way of gaming is at risk.

I get it. Using the save editor I can get everything a player with 500 hours has in a few minutes. If someone's sense of self worth was wrapped up in those 500 hours, then it could hurt their feelings that someone caught up in an instant. People want to feel appropriately rewarded for their efforts and get jealous when someone gets what they have easier. But that's a personal problem.

[darknessanubis]

Jouchebag님이 먼저 게시:

darknessanubis님이 먼저 게시:

Actually where you see it is in games that actively do not allow Mods. Then you see people demanding mods trying to browbeat players that do not use mods as being sub optimal players and dragging everyone else down.

Let's separate modding and cheating. Modding doesn't mean cheating but it can be used to cheat.

A request for modding support is not browbeating anyone. People who use mods do it because it makes the game better for them and while they certainly can be vocal about their support I've not seen anyone denigrate someone for not modding unless they are complaining about something a mod fixes. The very idea of using a mod is the freedom of choice. It would be immediately hypocritical to force your choice on someone else.

Not that it doesn't happen, but that's not a common feeling or belief. That's a outlying crazy person who lacks self-awareness and we treat those people as individual cases. I frequent a lot of the most commonly modded games (Everything on the Nexus' Top 20 list, really) and there isn't a group or constituency of people shoving mods in other people's faces.

Plenty of suggestions like "Well, you aren't the only person who hates that feature, there's a mod for that." which isn't browbeating.

But there's an army of people who will pop up and say "Play the game as it was made! Mods are for losers!" or "No, we don't need mods! Because... stuff!" Vanilla players are way more entrenched than modders because they are afraid their way of gaming is at risk.

I get it. Using the save editor I can get everything a player with 500 hours has in a few minutes. If someone's sense of self worth was wrapped up in those 500 hours, then it could hurt their feelings that someone caught up in an instant. People want to feel appropriately rewarded for their efforts and get jealous when someone gets what they have easier. But that's a personal problem.

Ok I am totally on board with mods or not being a personal choice so lets start there. I do not use them because for ME PERSONALLY mods destroy games. I have gone down that road before and it doesn't work for me. Other people enjoy them and in a single player setting or one where all parties in the multiplayer agree then more power to them and have fun using mods. Not my business what another does in their game unless I am playing with them directly.

I am coming from a MMORPG background where there are games actually designed with mod use in mind and games that do not allow them (by TOS). In the case of a game I play that does not allow mod use the pro mods people demand mods be allowed and viciously attack those against it as being terrible players (and far far worse). It is seen very frequently in the forums.

EDIT: In the particular MMORPG I am referencing the anti mod crowd would probably be fine with mods if it were not for the fact that the pro mod crowd pushes the idea that they want to know everyones numbers so they can push the "Bads" out of the game. They are not content with live and let live.

[Foxglovez]

Oof, on the MMORPG front, I played ESO for over six bloody years and was a vet dungeon and trial healer. To do my job it was required that I download and keep updated over 120 mods. Without mods we couldn't do our jobs. You slacked off, you booted out. Was it cheating, yeah it was a million work-arounds and lots of flash and trash. One day I packed up my kit and left the MMO world never to look back again (Bye Todd) to land on Valheim and NMS. Sure I could mod here but why bother. For me personally, no need. Do I care a whit if others do? Why would I, not their Mom. End of discussion. I could also get any and all rewards through other means. Ok, who cares? I do what I do because it entertains me. Others, they do their stuff. No One Cares what you do.

The big question I have for this style of thread which seems to pop up like a bad penny every six months or so, is why does this have to be an existential discussion that harkens back to your playing a totally different kind of game and now trying to get all over this one like a bad rash?

This is a solo experience pretty much. There are no leaderboards, there are no competitive aspects, (there is a bit of pvp but you gotta hunt for it and MP works like ♥♥♥♥ so why bother) It's like folks would rather yammer on and make rules for others and question their motives than just go play the game.
I think the OPs issues are related to being given too much freedom to feel comfortable with. Where are those rules? Who keeps me safe from myself? How do I deal with noone around to police me here? It can be uncomfortable. Taking responsibility for only ones self is a hard go for some.
If this was a first year philosophy class you are trying to "teach", poorly I might add, I could maybe understand it, but it's not. To clarify, you do realize that noone's mind is ever changed on the internet, right? We have tried mightily to explain to you how this game works and what the options are but it's just not good enough I guess, we gotta go back and run through it again, just to clarify of course.
This should cue the Monty Python pounding on the dead cartoon horse. I hope this is all clarified completely now. I imagine it will just go on and on till people become so weary of repeating it all that noone bothers to answer any more.
Travel safe.