No Man's Sky

No Man's Sky

View Stats:
This topic has been locked
Felix Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:01pm
Petition: No Man's Sky as libre software, for an even better game, and for freedom
I sent an email to Hello Games about a week ago, requesting that they release NMS as free/libre software under the GNU GPL v3. Note that the "free" does not refer to price, it refers to freedom. With free/libre software, anyone has the freedom to view the source code, modify it, redistribute it as-is and redistribute modified versions. They haven't yet responded, so I was hoping to gather support here, to perhaps help encourage them to do it.

Why free/libre software?
The most important part about free/libre software is that it gives you freedom in computing. If we are all in control of the software we use, rather than a single entity (a person, a company, etc) then we cannot be used by the software we are supposed to be using.
I don't believe that Hello Games are unethical or amoral. In fact, I believe the opposite, considering they didn't abandon the game at launch and leave it in the state it was in, and didn't implement microtransactions with the Quicksilver currency. These are things that we should expect, not praise, but still.
What I do believe, though, is that releasing proprietary software is wrong, whether or not the software 'uses' its 'users'. There's no reason to not release software as free/libre, and it actually has 'practical' benefits.

Benefits
By making No Man's Sky free/libre software, Hello Games will be demonstrating to the world that it works. NMS is a popular game, so as a 'promotional tool' for the concept of free/libre software, it's a perfect fit. By being "trailblazers" as it were, this could open the way to more free/libre software games in the future, as developers realise how much better it is. I can only hope that they will recognise the importance of freedom, too.
With regards to 'practical' benefits, the most obvious is a more stable game. I think we can all agree that No Man's Sky has quite a few bugs. Hello Games say they're a tiny team, so it may be difficult for them to rectify these in a timely matter. If they release NMS as free/libre software, anyone with programming experience can help them improve the game. It could even allow them to work on more major content for the game, by freeing up the time they spend debugging.
Of course, community contributions wouldn't need to just be limited to bugfixing. New features could be added too, as long as they're in line with what Hello Games' vision for NMS is. Working together with the community to improve the game, I feel, will make the game last much longer than it could do as proprietary software. Even far into the future, when computers have changed, if the game were free/libre software, someone could probably take the code and convert it to run on the new hardware that computers would be using. Games are art, and No Man's Sky is no exception. We should want to preserve art for future generations, and making games free/libre software is the best way to preserve them.

Aside from bugfixing and adding new features, there are many other things the community can do to help the game. Correcting spelling mistakes in dialogue and other text, translating the game into other languages, improving performance, maybe even adding support for non-Windows operating systems like GNU/Linux. A team of people can only do so much, and I am impressed by the scale of the game as it is now despite Hello Games' small size. Imagine how much better it can become if anyone in the world can collaborate with Hello Games to improve upon the game. Right now, I would call No Man's Sky a great game. As free/libre software, it could become an almost perfect game.

Downsides (and how to mitigate them)
Money. It makes the world go around, at least according to a song. "If NMS is released as free/libre software, how will it make money?", you might ask. First, let's remember that free/libre software isn't about price. It's perfectly fine for Hello Games to continue selling NMS. Obviously, if the source code is available, that means someone could compile it and play the game without paying Hello Games. I won't deny that. However, illegal copying of games (and music and other forms of art on the Internet) has and will continue to occur, regardless of how it's released. There's nothing stopping anyone right now from acquiring No Man's Sky for no monetary cost. Sometimes people don't have the money, or simply don't want to pay. Regardless of whether or not NMS is free/libre software, I'm fairly certain that people have and will continue to illegally copy it without paying Hello Games.
With free/libre software, however, there is something of a solution to this. It could be implemented if the game were proprietary, but the public would likely feel more goodwill towards Hello Games for releasing the game as free/libre software, therefore increasing the amount of people willing to do it.
"It" in question is fairly simple: adding an unobtrusive clickable box to both the main menu and the in-game options menu, which simply says "Enjoy the game? Click here to donate to the developers." That way, even when people do acquire the game via illegal copying, there is more chance that at some point, if they are able to, they will send money to Hello Games for providing them with an enjoyable experience. Personally, though, I don't feel that this is something that deserves too much concern. As I said before, this sort of thing has happened in the past and will continue to happen, regardless of whether software and games are free/libre software. Adding an option to donate, though, could actually have a positive impact on how many people send money to Hello Games.

Another area of concern is the 'problem' of forking. What if someone makes significant improvements and/or changes to the game, but then releases it as a proprietary fork? Under the GNU GPL v3, this is not allowed. Any software that is free/libre must continue to be released as free/libre by anyone else who creates a release. While there are of course people out there who do things which are not allowed, because this action is a breach of the GNU GPL, Hello Games would be able to take legal action against anyone who did this. Personally, I don't see this as too big of a problem. Free/libre software has survived so far, and it's been around for quite a long time now, since at least 1983.

I hope that my mitigation suggestions are good enough, but please comment if you have any other suggestions.

Why not "open source"?
The term "open source" has been used significantly recently. In essence, it's free/libre software, but without the actual point of free/libre software. Proponents of "open source" simply state that it allows for better software to be produced. This is true, but it's missing the point. Free/libre software, as stated previously, is first and foremost about freedom. While I've described benefits in this post which aren't related to freedom, this is simply because they're true. Just because they exist, it doesn't mean we can't call it what it is, free/libre software, and not let ourselves get caught up exclusively in the "making software better" mantra. You could make something that restricts its users better with "open source", but making something better which doesn't serve its users means you've improved something which restricts the freedom of its 'users' (or 'useds', because the software is 'using' them, rather than the other way around).
That's why we need to be clear, and speak of freedom. We can't have freedom without talking about freedom. Many in the "open source" movement believe it's better to call it by that name because "people will believe you're talking about price" if you say free software, but I don't agree with that. Simply being clear in your communication is an effective method of preventing confusion about the term. It's also why I say "free/libre", rather than just "free", but you can also say "free software (free as in freedom, not as in price)", which I'd call perfectly clear. Sure, it takes longer to type or speak than "open source", but isn't it worth it to promote freedom in computing?
Regarding "what people think it means", the "open source" term actually has it worse - many would say it just means "you can view the source code" (not redistribute, edit, redistribute edits). Even if the term "free software" is confusing to people now, that can easily be solved with proper education on the matter. Changing the term to ignore the most important part, freedom, is a terrible mistake.

Conclusion
If Hello Games releases No Man's Sky as free/libre software, the entire world would benefit. Making the concept popular would surely convince other developers that this is worth pursuing, and would hopefully result in freedom for all computer users, even those who want to play games. Games, so far, have been one of the biggest barriers against the full adoption of free/libre software, for instance by not running on free/libre operating systems such as GNU/Linux. We can make the world a better place, while in the process improving upon games like No Man's Sky. NMS is a beautiful game, and seeing it soar to greater heights by allowing the community to improve upon it, including in ways that perhaps Hello Games hasn't thought of, would be a great benefit to everyone.

Thank you for reading my post. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. I will respond as and when I can.
Last edited by Felix; Dec 8, 2020 @ 2:38am
< >
Showing 1-15 of 547 comments
Dirak2012 Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:06pm 
Not going to happen.
Felix Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:08pm 
Originally posted by Dirak2012:
Not going to happen.
Thank you for your comment. Could you elaborate on why you feel this way?
MrWitz Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:14pm 
NMS is not a philanthropic product, nor should it be. It was developed as a source of entertainment, not for the 'furtherment of mankind' as you seem to hope for. As a source of entertainement, it is to be consumed, and therefore PURCHASED by the consumer.

Regardless, I fail to see how NMS would "benefit the entire world" as you say. It's a game, not a revolutionary mathematical discovery of a 4th dimension.
Felix Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:17pm 
Originally posted by BigZ:
NMS is not a philanthropic product, nor should it be. It was developed as a source of entertainment, not for the 'furtherment of mankind' as you seem to hope for. As a source of entertainement, it is to be consumed, and therefore PURCHASED by the consumer.

Regardless, I fail to see how NMS would "benefit the entire world" as you say. It's a game, not a revolutionary mathematical discovery of a 4th dimension.
Thanks for posting. I think you missed the part where I mentioned that free/libre software isn't about price, but about freedom, though. Perhaps I could persuade you to re-read my post?
Mr. Bufferlow Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:19pm 
Why would any active business give away the source code for their intellectual work product? I would not do it if I were HG. Maybe when the sales have dried up and it becomes abandonware it might happen.
Felix Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:21pm 
Originally posted by Mr. Bufferlow:
Why would any active business give away the source code for their intellectual work product? I would not do it if I were HG. Maybe when the sales have dried up and it becomes abandonware it might happen.
'Giving away' the source code isn't exactly the right description. It's more 'allowing everyone access to the source code so they can improve upon the game'. Personally, I don't think that it would impact sales very much. People can still acquire the game without paying for it regardless, as I stated in my post. Thanks for your comment.
Jess Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:23pm 
I kinda wish it could happen, but I don't think it's the right time for that. They are still selling the game, and are still working on some updates likely. Maybe they could (but very doubtful they even would) do that in maybe 30 years?

The only thing I would want now is that they could update their EULA to have it where the license to play is not revocable itself including any important updates to the EULA if purchasing it is legit. Or at least allow it where it can only be revoked beyond if big rules are violated maybe. This second paragraph might be considered weird but I often hated EULAs that tries to take ownership away. Haha
Felix Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:26pm 
Originally posted by Jess:
I kinda wish it could happen, but I don't think it's the right time for that. They are still selling the game, and are still working on some updates likely. Maybe they could (but very doubtful they even would) do that in maybe 30 years?

The only thing I would want now is that they could update their EULA to have it where the license to play is not revocable itself including any important updates to the EULA if purchasing it is legit. Or at least allow it where it can only be revoked beyond if big rules are violated maybe. This second paragraph might be considered weird but I often hated EULAs that tries to take ownership away. Haha
I wouldn't agree that it's not the right time, at least not in the sense you mean. Free/libre software should ideally be free/libre from the start, to ensure a clean codebase, etc. I'm not sure why them still selling the game is something you believe precludes the idea of releasing it as free/libre software. Can you elaborate on that? Thank you.
MrWitz Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:31pm 
Using your logic, all food on earth should be given out for free. Since food is necessary for our survival, restaurants and grocery stores should just give it out for free and ask politely for people to donate.

That's an adorable version of reality that you've concocted, hinging entirely on a faulty assumption that mankind is basically good....but alas, that's not the reality we live in.
Seneschal Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:33pm 
Originally posted by Felix:
Originally posted by Mr. Bufferlow:
Why would any active business give away the source code for their intellectual work product? I would not do it if I were HG. Maybe when the sales have dried up and it becomes abandonware it might happen.
'Giving away' the source code isn't exactly the right description. It's more 'allowing everyone access to the source code so they can improve upon the game'. Personally, I don't think that it would impact sales very much. People can still acquire the game without paying for it regardless, as I stated in my post. Thanks for your comment.
i mean it is allowing anyone to redistribute alter or upload their version of nomans sky in essence defeating the entire purpose of a copy right. and while i respect your idea its ultimately their IP and by all extensions of the imagination is their universe manifested, frankly letting others run and create variants would belittle the universe already in place. my suggestion is you make a game in space then allow everyone access to the source code. though if you really want to encourage freedom i believe you have every right to make your own procedurally generated space game and open it to GNU GPL v3, after all your quite intellegent it seems
Felix Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:33pm 
Originally posted by BigZ:
Using your logic, all food on earth should be given out for free. Since food is necessary for our survival, restaurants and grocery stores should just give it out for free and ask politely for people to donate.

That's an adorable version of reality that you've concocted, hinging entirely on a faulty assumption that mankind is basically good....but alas, that's not the reality we live in.
That seems reasonable to me, but it's unrelated to what we're talking about. Free/libre software is about freedom, not price. You can charge money for free/libre software. I'm not entirely sure why you keep talking about price, exactly.
Seneschal Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:35pm 
Originally posted by Felix:
Originally posted by BigZ:
Using your logic, all food on earth should be given out for free. Since food is necessary for our survival, restaurants and grocery stores should just give it out for free and ask politely for people to donate.

That's an adorable version of reality that you've concocted, hinging entirely on a faulty assumption that mankind is basically good....but alas, that's not the reality we live in.
That seems reasonable to me, but it's unrelated to what we're talking about. Free/libre software is about freedom, not price. You can charge money for free/libre software. I'm not entirely sure why you keep talking about price, exactly.
well it does allow you to distribute copies of edited versions and if people distribute mildly altered versions of nomans sky for free why would you ever get the original
Felix Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:36pm 
Originally posted by Seneschal:
Originally posted by Felix:
'Giving away' the source code isn't exactly the right description. It's more 'allowing everyone access to the source code so they can improve upon the game'. Personally, I don't think that it would impact sales very much. People can still acquire the game without paying for it regardless, as I stated in my post. Thanks for your comment.
i mean it is allowing anyone to redistribute alter or upload their version of nomans sky in essence defeating the entire purpose of a copy right. and while i respect your idea its ultimately their IP and by all extensions of the imagination is their universe manifested, frankly letting others run and create variants would belittle the universe already in place. my suggestion is you make a game in space then allow everyone access to the source code. though if you really want to encourage freedom i believe you have every right to make your own procedurally generated space game and open it to GNU GPL v3, after all your quite intellegent it seems
Unfortunately, I don't have the intelligence to create my own games. I may use large words when I speak sometimes, but English is basically my best subject. I've tried programming before, and it didn't exactly pan out well. With regards to it "defeating the purpose of copyright", that's true, but I think the benefits outweight the costs here. If someone releases a fork correctly licensed under the GNU GPL v3, Hello Games can incorporate the code into their version anyway, if they want to. If they don't, I wouldn't say having different versions of the game with different goals is a bad thing - it just makes for more possibilities and more fun to be had.

Edit:

Originally posted by Seneschal:
Originally posted by Felix:
That seems reasonable to me, but it's unrelated to what we're talking about. Free/libre software is about freedom, not price. You can charge money for free/libre software. I'm not entirely sure why you keep talking about price, exactly.
well it does allow you to distribute copies of edited versions and if people distribute mildly altered versions of nomans sky for free why would you ever get the original
Well, Hello Games could require that any forks keep the donation box in the menus, and of course it would still have to state it's their original work. The majority of people will acquire something from its original developers, I feel, wanting to reward their work. Again, if we look at illegal copying, it exists - but games are still profitable.
Last edited by Felix; Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:38pm
MrWitz Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:38pm 
Originally posted by Felix:
Originally posted by BigZ:
Using your logic, all food on earth should be given out for free. Since food is necessary for our survival, restaurants and grocery stores should just give it out for free and ask politely for people to donate.

That's an adorable version of reality that you've concocted, hinging entirely on a faulty assumption that mankind is basically good....but alas, that's not the reality we live in.
I'm not entirely sure why you keep talking about price, exactly.

"Petition: Make No Man's Sky free..."

That's literally the title of your OP.

I'm not entirely sure why you expect people to NOT talk about price in a thread about making NMS free.
Felix Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:40pm 
Originally posted by BigZ:
Originally posted by Felix:
I'm not entirely sure why you keep talking about price, exactly.

"Petition: Make No Man's Sky free..."

That's literally the title of your OP.

I'm not entirely sure why you expect people to NOT talk about price in a thread about making NMS free.
I was hoping that people would read beyond the sixth word, I suppose. I can understand though if reading is difficult for you, language is a complex thing. You seem able to communicate just fine though, so I'm a little confused, personally.
Last edited by Felix; Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:41pm
< >
Showing 1-15 of 547 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Nov 26, 2020 @ 5:01pm
Posts: 547