"End Game" and progression? Is this what the devs need to focus on next?

[Holy Athena]

The biggest complaint I see about NMS, is the "End Game" or lack of. The game gets repetitive and not in a fun way. There is no more challenge, or difficulty once you hit "End game" and "End Game" hits you relatively quickly.

All you need to do is get a vehicle... scan for drop pods.. spam them.. you now have more inventory than you could ever want.. THen farm something... set up bases to passive farm while you spam manufactories, and buildings for nanites, and blueprints. GG you have everything you need and more money than you need to get a great ship, upgrades, and a good freighter...

You just won the game.. and by "Won" I mean you hit end game, and there is nothing really of value to do besides use the game as a pleasurable "explore beautiful landscapes" simulator.
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Don't get me wrong. This game is at its core, an exploration game, and I don't want to change that. The game is a masterpiece in its own right in that category, but it could have so much more. (Which the devs agree with, with how much content they keep adding to the game).

What this game is missing though, is what every game has.. and that's a gameplay loop. And this games game-play loop stops once you hit "end game".

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For those not aware of the term, gameplay loop is something which is an endless circle of things the player needs to do to get to the end credits.

Example is what most people know, and are so used too, they aren't even aware of it.. RPG games, like Skyrim, Witcher, etc. The gameplay loop is simple. Fight enemies to gain experience and money to buy new equipment, to fight higher enemies, gain experience and more money, to buy better equipment, to fight higher level enemies.. etc. etc. process repeats until you hit the credit reel.

However, for games like NMS, where there is no "Game Over" screen. You need to add infinite gameplay loop. Right now NMS really doesn't have that. It becomes an otherwise "empty" game with no real goals the player can set, or management they can focus on, or even really anything engaging the player can deal with to keep them interested and occupied.

An example I can give (and no I'm not saying NMS should be this, it's just an example of an infinite gameplay loop), is EVE Online. In EVE ONline its an open world universe. You spend time learning the mechanics, making money through missions, and earning money towards ships.. but you can lose loose ships, money, and expensive stuff, making you need to set goals for money, ships, weapons you need, and back ups of them, to continue to progress, and take on the plethora of activities you can engage in. It's an infinite loop of needs, managements, and player set goals which are necessary to continue playing.

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For those loving NMS as it is, and are always enjoying it. That's great, and nothing will affect your experience. That core of the game will never change, but I think the majority of players do get bored quickly, and drop the game. The numbers prove it I think. When a big update comes out, a huge surge of player numbers happens for a few months then it drops off heavily again for a year until another major update happens.

I myself have restarted the game countless times, because the most joy I get from NMS is when I can set goals, and needs for myself. The beginning early and mid game gameplay loop in NMS is engaging, and fun.

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SO this all brings me to my suggestions, and these suggestions would require alot of work, and probably several updates for each, but they are just that, suggestions and idea's to add an infinite like gameplay loop, allowing the player to set goals, and have those goals change depending on the situation.

Combat Focus:

For those who want to RP as a mercenary, pirate, or the like, having systems with dynamic power ratings for pirates, and the controlling faction would be a good gameplay loop, that would be dynamic and changing. If the player wants it to turn pirate, and become friends with the pirates (possibly opening up new mission, quests, or even "black market" items), they need to attack convoys, NPCs, etc. in the system, and the like. Turning the power balance in favor of the pirates, and getting a special quest which locks the pirates in as the controlling faction. This faction can switch back to original controlling factions if the player doesn't engage, or once in awhile pay attention to how the power is fluctuating.

Some systems may be pirate controlled right off the bat, and you can switch it to one of the 3 factions of your choosing by doing the same thing. (perhaps its a system with really good lucrative planets, and you want nice safe system with good trade opportunities), after awhile the trade and prices of stuff will go up and you'll have yourself a nice system for personal trades.

The loop being you can't ignore the systems, you will need to keep control of them.

Additional options which add more loop, being able to buy "defensive fleets" similar to your freighter fleet, but they will actively defend the system you flipped, and you assigned them too. They will take damage over time from the combat, and you will need to repair them, upkeep them, and or replace the lost ones with currency.

Trade Focus:

Being able to setup manufactoring plants, and trade good runs.

These would be in the form of unique items called "Trade Goods" of various degree's of sizes, and quality, depending on what type and grade of minerals you put into it.

For an example:

Base A is mining Activated Indium and Magnetite Ferrite

Base B is mining Cadmium, and Pyrite

Base C is the manufactoring plant.

Base A mining nodes go to the silo's as they already do, but those silos can then be connected too a Freighter Trade hub, which is similar to your storage vaults for your bases and player freighter. A console there, will allow you to select another base with a Freighter Drop off Hub, which would be Base C. Since Base C is putting it all together.

Base B does the same thing, and assigns it to Base C.

Base C recieves all those items, where the series of manufactoring buildable base equipment will transform it over time into a special "High Grade Trade Good" S quality. (Due to the high amounts of high end minerals used).

This would work much like the freighter trade runs we already have. A "freighter" would then trade what you have available, and over the course of 24 hours sell it, come back, and pick up more.

The loop would be that the freighters can come under attack, and get damaged, which again would require credits to spend on, to replace, fix, etc.

The bases also would require "maintenance" once in awhile to upkeep as well.

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I'm really pushing it on this one but... Player owned systems... The systems which are unclaimed by any faction, or pirate faction.

Building trade hubs on planets, Making the player base on said system the trade hub for NPCs, mission givers, etc.

It could play into the Combat and Trade goods idea's for infinite loops, where you'd need to keep control of your system from pirates, upkeeping a fleet, and defenses, etc.

If the player doesn't log in and activate a computer console in the base, at least once a month (a special console and or buildable thing which "claims" the system), the system is considered abandoned, and another player can claim it. Or if the player doesn't upkeep the defensive fleet, and the power of it drops too much for too long, and the power sways under 50% control for too long, the system is considered "taken over", if it stays "taken over" for too long, it goes back to being an empty system again.

[Holy Athena]

Originally posted by Shadowshard96:

In this era of gaming, not every game needs an ending or a "end game". These are what we call sandbox games, where there really isn't a main objective in the first place. You may have small quest that you have to do, but these are mostly for tutorial purposes, as well as getting to know the game world a little bit.

Games like Skyrim and Fallout follow a similar way of gameplay. They make the main quest completely optional for the player, I myself have yet to beat Fallout 4, even though I've restarted the game numerous times. I've never even seen what Diamond City looks like. People play games like these because it breaks the traditional way games are built, where players are required follow a specific path that leads the resolution of the game. It allows playera to play out a game in there own way, like the "create your own adventure" books, but in a more free and infinite world full of possibilities. The hardcore fans that play these games, play them more for the content rather that the story.

No Man Sky has no objective, therefore there is no ending. The true ending of NMS is when every single planet has been explored and documented, which will take literally decades to even pull off due to the 18 quintillion planets (or whatever the new total is due to the new planets from Origins) that people get to explore. If your strive for a good quest or story, then NMS may not be the game for you.

I can see you didn't really read the OP huh? "Skimming" is dangerous.

I quite clearly pointed out, that the game is lacking an infinite loop late game, to keep players interested. Something to keep them invested in both continueing to play once they've done the base game loop, and to continue to enjoy the base game loop of "Gathering, exploring".

You're suggesting this isn't necessary, my post and the player base population numbers disagree with you. Since there is always a heavy fall off a month or two after a big release. (This is normal) is not a good argument. It simply shows there is nothing keeping them invested to play, except for the smal lnumber of players who enjoy exploring a beautiful game world, even if there is nothing left to actually do.

I also clearly stated, that Skyrim was an example of a game loop, as an explanation, not that it is comparative to NMS, and there are plenty of open world, open ended, no end games out there with good infinite loops that help keep the players invested all the time with player given goals, and things to engage in, that aren't repetitive.

It really would be best if you didn't skim stuff, so other people don't have to wast time re explaining things to you which you should of already read, and comprehended.

[The Atlas]

so the small number of players that keeps exploring got the meaning of the game, others don't.
if they enjoy exploring, there is one more thing to do, EXPLORING, that aint hard

[Gremmy]

This isn't an mmorpg and it doesn't NEED an end game. The entire point of a sandbox survival game like this or ark or conan exiles etc etc etc is to play legos.

When you build something using legos, do you have an end game? Do you purchase building blocks with the idea in your mind that there is some end game you want to experience with those building blocks? The answer is no.

This game is a tool to express your creativity and EVERYTHING ELSE is atmospheric in nature. Flavor text to go along with your creations. You are creating cities for the purpose of roleplay. The npc enemies serve as plot points in your adventure in the galaxy they've provided for you.

You aren't playing some mega triple a single player rpg title, and if that's how you're interpreting this game, you're going about the game entirely wrong.

Your focus shouldn't be completing the game, it should be finding a world you enjoy looking at, and then colonising the world with your friends by building giant mega structures, factories, and cool buildings you can post screenshots of on the steam forums.

Lets look at minecraft for just a small moment. This game is VERY similar to minecraft in how you play the game. In minecraft you craft armor and weapons and tools for the purpose of survival and to build your base faster and with more interesting blocks. Eventually you are able to go to the nether and end areas of the game to collect resources to build even more things. The same can be said for no mans sky. Originally you cannot go to red green or blue stars, but once you upgrade your warp drive to have emeril / cadmium / whatever the blue one is, you gain access to more planet types and higher difficulty content.

Eventually you can kill the ender dragon in minecraft, sure. However that is a 5 minute fight with a leggo looking dragon and after it's done you can go right back to crafting / building.

So my point with all of this is that you need to treat these games as high graphic versions of minecraft or lego, and NOT as skyrim type games. You're trying to play the game in an unintended way and it's causing you unneeded frustration.

Hope this helped you understand what no mans sky ACTUALLY IS.

[Das Apple]

So basically you'd like x-series and eve online injected into nms? Sounds awesome and i'm all for that. But i doubt that is the vision devs have for this game, might be costly and take too long to develop such deep systems, but we can hope.

But realistically i think star citizen, if it ever comes out, is the best chance we have to get such game. Until that i enjoy nms for what it offers, mods help with that abit too.

[Holy Athena]

Originally posted by Gremmy:

This isn't an mmorpg and it doesn't NEED an end game. The entire point of a sandbox survival game like this or ark or conan exiles etc etc etc is to play legos.

When you build something using legos, do you have an end game? Do you purchase building blocks with the idea in your mind that there is some end game you want to experience with those building blocks? The answer is no.

This game is a tool to express your creativity and EVERYTHING ELSE is atmospheric in nature. Flavor text to go along with your creations. You are creating cities for the purpose of roleplay. The npc enemies serve as plot points in your adventure in the galaxy they've provided for you.

You aren't playing some mega triple a single player rpg title, and if that's how you're interpreting this game, you're going about the game entirely wrong.

Your focus shouldn't be completing the game, it should be finding a world you enjoy looking at, and then colonising the world with your friends by building giant mega structures, factories, and cool buildings you can post screenshots of on the steam forums.

Lets look at minecraft for just a small moment. This game is VERY similar to minecraft in how you play the game. In minecraft you craft armor and weapons and tools for the purpose of survival and to build your base faster and with more interesting blocks. Eventually you are able to go to the nether and end areas of the game to collect resources to build even more things. The same can be said for no mans sky. Originally you cannot go to red green or blue stars, but once you upgrade your warp drive to have emeril / cadmium / whatever the blue one is, you gain access to more planet types and higher difficulty content.

Eventually you can kill the ender dragon in minecraft, sure. However that is a 5 minute fight with a leggo looking dragon and after it's done you can go right back to crafting / building.

So my point with all of this is that you need to treat these games as high graphic versions of minecraft or lego, and NOT as skyrim type games. You're trying to play the game in an unintended way and it's causing you unneeded frustration.

Hope this helped you understand what no mans sky ACTUALLY IS.

YOu completely missed the point of the post.

When did I compare this game to Skyrim? The skyim reference was CLEARLY an example for people who didn't know what a gameplay loop is..

Or are you another one who completely failed to read, skimmed, and didn't comprehend anything you read?

I can't tell you how sick and tired I am of people skimming crap, and typing a bunch of worthless jibberish...

[Holy Athena]

Originally posted by Das Apple:

So basically you'd like x-series and eve online injected into nms? Sounds awesome and i'm all for that. But i doubt that is the vision devs have for this game, might be costly and take too long to develop such deep systems, but we can hope.

But realistically i think star citizen, if it ever comes out, is the best chance we have to get such game. Until that i enjoy nms for what it offers, mods help with that abit too.

No I don't want X-series, or eve online injected...

[Doom]

Originally posted by Holy Athena:

The biggest complaint I see about NMS, is the "End Game"

Reach the center of galaxy.

Originally posted by Holy Athena:

Example is what most people know, and are so used too, they aren't even aware of it.. RPG games, like Skyrim, Witcher, etc. The gameplay loop is simple. Fight enemies to gain experience and money to buy new equipment, to fight higher enemies, gain experience and more money, to buy better equipment, to fight higher level enemies.. etc. etc. process repeats until you hit the credit reel.

That's not skyrim or witcher, though. You're describing MMO hamsterwheel grind - chasing carrot on a stick forever.

The core "loop" of witcher is chasing storylines. Find storyline, follow it, reach decision, pick one (regret it anyway), seek next storyline. Only to see your decisions pile up in the final result of the game, giving you feeling of satisfaction/amazement. Gear/abilities/leveling is very secondary to it, and largely serves only to artificially gate your progression.

If you fancy hamstrewheel grind type of targets, however, NMS has plenty of it.

For example... unlock all things in Anomaly.
Find the perfect freighter with super specs.
Find the perfect multitool.
Unlock every thing in discovery catalogue (or whatever it is called).
Close all major storylines.
Learn all words.
Unlock every title.
Fill entire catalogue.

This shoudl keep you busy for couple of dozen hours at the very least.

Once it is all done, go to the center of the galaxy.

[Doom]

At the end of the day, you won't be playing this game forever, and even if there was a forced "infinite loop", you'd just get tired of it eventually.

So it is largely fine as it is.

Also, do not forget the ultimate goal - "visit every start system."

[Holy Athena]

Originally posted by Doom:

At the end of the day, you won't be playing this game forever, and even if there was a forced "infinite loop", you'd just get tired of it eventually.

So it is largely fine as it is.

Also, do not forget the ultimate goal - "visit every start system."

With that logic, The devs just wasted their time releasing all the expansions... Great logic...

But liket he devs, I'm looking at what the game could use to help prolong its life and give the players something they can engage in for a long time without getting bored.

I, like the developers, don't cop out to those weak excuses "eh they'll get tired of it eventually, 1.0 was a bust.. lets release NMS 2!"

is literally the logic you just pulled with me.. and its dirty and garbage.Why release any expansions if people will jsut get bored eventually anyway right?

Why make games at all with that logic?

/facepalm

[Weaver]

This game has never been about a challenge. Not every game needs challenge and hard combat and grinds and endless quest for the ever expanding "end game". F that nonsense frankly. Many of us have hundreds or thousands of hours, and more people are playing NMS on a daily basis than ever, so clearly things are perfectly fine. This is as bad as people who think Subnautica needs weapons, or Satisfactory needs base attacks, you've totally missed the point of the game. Go play an MMO if you want to play the same thing endlessly with moving bait.

[Hollywood]

First of all, your OP is pretty massive to expect people to read it all when they're likely just at a pause from the game and looking at Steam, so you're gonna get skimming, I myself skimmed it. I like what you said about the fleet system though, I think this game could benefit from an Anno style loop. One where you can eventually build up mega automated loops of freighters bringing in supplies that develop a planet or keep systems running. Honestly this game would be amazing if it was combined with Satisfactory.

[Ghostrider]

I always find it interesting how there are those out there that want game X to be like game Y.. Not realising that the reason game X is the way it is, is maybe that is how the developers envisioned their creation..
Because when you think about it if all games within a certain genre were exactly the same, and had nothing to make them stand out from each other then they would all be very boring..

[SoloQ]

Clearly you've chosen the wrong game. This game does not have those things and does not need those things. If those are the things you're looking for in a game, might i suggest trying another game? Or do you expect every game developer to cater to your whims and fancies?

[cylentstorm]

Endgame? No Man's Sky isn't that kind of jam. Lol. I think that some of your suggestions are interesting, but this isn't a hardcore sim of any sort. If you spend most of your time grinding for resources, then perhaps something like X, EVE, or Elite would be more your speed.

That being said, NMS seems to mean different things to different people. Personally, I've always been in it for the exploration and discovery....and Geknip.

[DyD&Marina]

Originally posted by Ghostrider:

I always find it interesting how there are those out there that want game X to be like game Y.. Not realising that the reason game X is the way it is, is maybe that is how the developers envisioned their creation..
Because when you think about it if all games within a certain genre were exactly the same, and had nothing to make them stand out from each other then they would all be very boring..

The fact is Hello Games "envisioned" a game with a bigger combat part of the actual, factions battles(where you can choose sides with bigger meaning), destroy fleet and space station.

They even "envisioned" a no man sky where you can play only like a trader or play only in space

And others things people know no man sky from when was announced know.


Hello games for various reason failed to delivery the game they wanted to do and after the launch they started to fix all the missing and lacking parts of the game.

Hello games expanded various time the combat parts of the game, they want to make it better.

If you don't like combat or deeper gameplay ok, there are other game more adapt to you, but Hello games want combat to be better and want deeper gameplay.

Hello games want the actual no man sky to be more in line with the game they envisioned and developed for various years.