So leveling doesn't matter and you just have to spam magazines?

[Raptor]

Maybe I don't understand the new skill system, but it doesn't matter how much you level up if you don't get the right magazines to drop when looting? So what's the point of even staying in one place? It's just loot nonstop until you find enough magazines to actually build effective weapons and structures. Am I understanding that right?

So they force you to loot when every POI is a funhouse that drops zombies and dogs and bears on you, and make you do it with a wooden club unless you get lucky and find a homemade pipe pistol from 1834?

[Ensign Toby]

Leveling improves your person (HP/Stamina, plus points for the 5 Attribute/Skill Trees)
(Generally) Magazines improves your crafting abilities.
(Generally) Books add/improve various character buffs.

You need all three types of "leveling" to create a well-rounded character (that survives).

Finding Magazines is easier when you know where to look (eg. Forge Ahead are in Forges)
Bookstores are also well-stocked with Magazines too.
And, as always, RNG is also a factor everywhere else.

Finding Books is mainly RNG, but (surprisingly enough) Books Hang Out in Bookstores.
And, as always, RNG is also a factor everywhere else.

Certain Attributes (from leveling your person) improve chances of finding Magazines/Books.

---

You can either "Stay in One Place" or "Go Forth and Loot" - Your Choice.
You're gonna find more loot if you Go Forth and Loot (over waiting for it to come to you).

Quest Rewards (from Traders) also include Magazines/Books as well.

POIs are totally optional, but the loot you find in them enables you to loot/level faster.
You may want to be extra cautious with (or avoid) POIs until you have at least iron weapons.
Pay attention to the POI "Skull Level" and don't get too ambitious too soon (or Die).

Essentially, the Game Loop is:
* Loot and/or Kill Enemies -> Get Better Gear -> Level Up -> Repeat until Max Level

Basically, the same game loop as every other Survival type Game...

[Raptor]

But loot never "comes to you." Zombies drop loot very rarely, and usually it's not very good. You HAVE to loot unless you want to sit around doing nothing for weeks in-game.

And from what you said, yeah, you are hard-gated by having to find and read magazines. You can't level up enough to learn how to make a forge until you read 10 books or whatever, which means you have to run around looking for books nonstop.

[Ensign Toby]

Originally posted by Raptor:

But loot never "comes to you." Zombies drop loot very rarely, and usually it's not very good. You HAVE to loot unless you want to sit around doing nothing for weeks in-game.

Not True...
Loot Comes to You:
* via Horde Night (configurable frequency, including daily).
* via Screamers (you'll enjoy these), especially if they summon 1+ Hordes.
* via Air Drops (also configurable frequency) just not delivered to your door.

But it's MUCH faster to Go Forth 'n Loot regardless (as in every other Survival Game).

[Crater Creator]

Excellent post, Ensign Toby.

Originally posted by Ensign Toby:

Certain Attributes (from leveling your person) improve chances of finding Magazines/Books.

And it’s worth pointing out this improved chance is tailored to where you spend your skill points. Level 5 in archery will mean you find a lot more bow magazines, proportionally.

For something like a forge, buying one outright from a trader would be another option for players seeking an alternative to looting. Though personally, I preferred when forges and other stations in POIs had a small chance of spawning intact instead of destroyed.

[Raptor]

Watched some videos about "Loot to Learn" because that's literally what it is. Old player here and it just kind of sucks because there is basically only one way to play this game anymore, and that's exactly the way the devs WANT you to play it.

I've tried playing it how I want, playing differently, but that always ends up with me dead because you are either forced to loot, or you try and stay in one spot and good luck fighting off a horde with a wooden club and spear. I personally never liked even going to the trader because it felt kind of lame and killed my immersion, so I ignore them, but that pretty much makes the game impossible now as you HAVE to do quests unless you want to forever loot nothing but stacks of rotten flesh and cloth and walk around grinding the most tedious and slow way possible for weeks.

Even if you don't do quests, a lot of the POI's have these weird spots with generators and other stuff that are obviously related to missions, so the actual exploration in the game is gone. Everything is a premade POI.

It just sucks. Maybe I'll just go back to alpha 16 and deal with the worse graphics lol.

Thanks for the info anyway, I appreciate it. I sound like an old gorgnard.

[Raptor]

Originally posted by Ensign Toby:

Not True...
Loot Comes to You:
* via Horde Night (configurable frequency, including daily).
* via Screamers (you'll enjoy these), especially if they summon 1+ Hordes.
* via Air Drops (also configurable frequency) just not delivered to your door.

But it's MUCH faster to Go Forth 'n Loot regardless (as in every other Survival Game).

I actually did notice more screamers just roaming around now, so maybe I could make that work with staying in a local area. It just feels like it would take 10x the amount of time, basically take forever, to actually get the loot I need to make better stuff.

[Macdallan]

Originally posted by Raptor:

Watched some videos about "Loot to Learn" because that's literally what it is. Old player here and it just kind of sucks because there is basically only one way to play this game anymore, and that's exactly the way the devs WANT you to play it.

I've tried playing it how I want, playing differently, but that always ends up with me dead because you are either forced to loot, or you try and stay in one spot and good luck fighting off a horde with a wooden club and spear. I personally never liked even going to the trader because it felt kind of lame and killed my immersion, so I ignore them, but that pretty much makes the game impossible now as you HAVE to do quests unless you want to forever loot nothing but stacks of rotten flesh and cloth and walk around grinding the most tedious and slow way possible for weeks.

Even if you don't do quests, a lot of the POI's have these weird spots with generators and other stuff that are obviously related to missions, so the actual exploration in the game is gone. Everything is a premade POI.

It just sucks. Maybe I'll just go back to alpha 16 and deal with the worse graphics lol.

Thanks for the info anyway, I appreciate it. I sound like an old gorgnard.

Lots of players seem to like the new systems but I'm with you - the direction TFP decided to go has made this game into something I do not enjoy playing. Way too many complete nonsense systems including this "Learn by Reading" system (and especially the way the game skews loot rolls toward the things where you put points...), all the "magic items" including armour with ridiculous magical bonuses, and the magic POI re-setting trader based quest system. Having books that you can learn from is fine, but they way they decided to implement this, and all the stat/perk systems, is horrible.

Then there is the focus on horde nights instead of giving us proper wandering hordes turning what used to be on track to be a solid survival crafting scavenging game set in the modern world (more or less) where there just happens to be a zombie problem into a ho-hum bog standard tower defence mini-game where all the enemies magically GPS to your location no matter what you're doing or where you go. It's ridiculous that this game has fallen so far in the last few years...

Anyway, good news - there are some talented modders out there that have made some pretty impressive overhaul mods, some of which basically revert most of the nonsense. I'm hoping for someone to come along to rip out ALL the silly stuff and turn this into the game it was promised to become.

[Ensign Toby]

POIs are not required, just faster.
Quests are not required (if you don't want to complete all the challenges), just faster.
Traders are also optional, but a good source of magazines/loot every 7 days or so.
Buying things at Traders is also optional.

Horde Night is also optional (and even re-configurable on-the fly).
Turn it off until you feel you are ready...

If you want to play the full Explorer/Scavenger Mode, it's totally possible (just slower).
Being extra Sneaky (Stealth Build/Outfit Helps), and Loot until you're more capable.

It's a Sandbox Game, with an optional Quest System if you want to level faster.
If you level slowly, adjust to play style to hit-n-run everything until you are stronger...

[Trooper Bri]

I've gotten used to just shifting my play style over the years as TFP changes the recipe on the progress system.

You aren't pinned down by books completely. They're definitely not my favorite system, but you can line-jump a lot of that process with loot. Either by starting in harder biomes for higher loot stages in general, and in POIs, or bumping up your loot/trader stats. These days I've already bought a crucible before I can even craft a cement mixer. Priorities.

And then there's what, the Nerd outfit? I think that gives a chance of getting two points from reading a book?

At the end of the day I'm not letting a slightly borked system get in the way of my creativity. The books are meh, but the world looks amazing, and the POIs are even more so.

[Sylvaa]

Originally posted by Ensign Toby:

Leveling improves your person (HP/Stamina, plus points for the 5 Attribute/Skill Trees)
(Generally) Magazines improves your crafting abilities.
(Generally) Books add/improve various character buffs.

You need all three types of "leveling" to create a well-rounded character (that survives).

Finding Magazines is easier when you know where to look (eg. Forge Ahead are in Forges)
Bookstores are also well-stocked with Magazines too.
And, as always, RNG is also a factor everywhere else.

Finding Books is mainly RNG, but (surprisingly enough) Books Hang Out in Bookstores.
And, as always, RNG is also a factor everywhere else.

Certain Attributes (from leveling your person) improve chances of finding Magazines/Books.

---

You can either "Stay in One Place" or "Go Forth and Loot" - Your Choice.
You're gonna find more loot if you Go Forth and Loot (over waiting for it to come to you).

Quest Rewards (from Traders) also include Magazines/Books as well.

POIs are totally optional, but the loot you find in them enables you to loot/level faster.
You may want to be extra cautious with (or avoid) POIs until you have at least iron weapons.
Pay attention to the POI "Skull Level" and don't get too ambitious too soon (or Die).

Essentially, the Game Loop is:
* Loot and/or Kill Enemies -> Get Better Gear -> Level Up -> Repeat until Max Level

Basically, the same game loop as every other Survival type Game...

100%

In addition, I sometimes play an "arcade" save, if I have a couple of days spare, where I bump the XP gain up to 200% - It works badly since the new system, because your level soon goes way beyond your crafting ability. You can counter this by using the cheat menu to give yourself some magazines, to bring you up to relative speed. I tend to give myself 20 of each, once I hit level 40, which balances itself out.

I find on a normal XP save, with exploration, books and magazines come in at the right pace, but spreading yourself too thin on spec points means the pool of books/magazines gets diluted. Jack of all trades, master of none.

[Crater Creator]

Originally posted by Raptor:

Watched some videos about "Loot to Learn" because that's literally what it is. Old player here and it just kind of sucks because there is basically only one way to play this game anymore, and that's exactly the way the devs WANT you to play it.

I've tried playing it how I want, playing differently, but that always ends up with me dead because you are either forced to loot, or you try and stay in one spot and good luck fighting off a horde with a wooden club and spear. I personally never liked even going to the trader because it felt kind of lame and killed my immersion, so I ignore them, but that pretty much makes the game impossible now as you HAVE to do quests unless you want to forever loot nothing but stacks of rotten flesh and cloth and walk around grinding the most tedious and slow way possible for weeks.

Even if you don't do quests, a lot of the POI's have these weird spots with generators and other stuff that are obviously related to missions, so the actual exploration in the game is gone. Everything is a premade POI.

It just sucks. Maybe I'll just go back to alpha 16 and deal with the worse graphics lol.

Thanks for the info anyway, I appreciate it. I sound like an old gorgnard.

I mean… you keep coming back to questing in these POIs being the only way to have more than junk, but that’s not true. If books and magazines are the biggest struggle, then go to a town and loot all the mailboxes and newsstands. They’re outside, so you don’t have to deal with the interior dungeon crawls. You’ll get about as much specifically in terms of books and magazines as if you explored the insides. I’d even say it’s kinda cheap, but the devs didn’t put them there by accident.

[Womens Deodorant]

Originally posted by Crater Creator:

Excellent post, Ensign Toby.

Originally posted by Ensign Toby:

Certain Attributes (from leveling your person) improve chances of finding Magazines/Books.

And it’s worth pointing out this improved chance is tailored to where you spend your skill points. Level 5 in archery will mean you find a lot more bow magazines, proportionally.

For something like a forge, buying one outright from a trader would be another option for players seeking an alternative to looting. Though personally, I preferred when forges and other stations in POIs had a small chance of spawning intact instead of destroyed.

There is a mod that lets you repair workstations found in POIs. Can't pick it up, but you can return to the POI anytime and use the workstation once repaired. Super useful and realistic.

[Malistair]

Originally posted by Crater Creator:

Originally posted by Raptor:

Watched some videos about "Loot to Learn" because that's literally what it is. Old player here and it just kind of sucks because there is basically only one way to play this game anymore, and that's exactly the way the devs WANT you to play it.

I've tried playing it how I want, playing differently, but that always ends up with me dead because you are either forced to loot, or you try and stay in one spot and good luck fighting off a horde with a wooden club and spear. I personally never liked even going to the trader because it felt kind of lame and killed my immersion, so I ignore them, but that pretty much makes the game impossible now as you HAVE to do quests unless you want to forever loot nothing but stacks of rotten flesh and cloth and walk around grinding the most tedious and slow way possible for weeks.

Even if you don't do quests, a lot of the POI's have these weird spots with generators and other stuff that are obviously related to missions, so the actual exploration in the game is gone. Everything is a premade POI.

It just sucks. Maybe I'll just go back to alpha 16 and deal with the worse graphics lol.

Thanks for the info anyway, I appreciate it. I sound like an old gorgnard.

I mean… you keep coming back to questing in these POIs being the only way to have more than junk, but that’s not true. If books and magazines are the biggest struggle, then go to a town and loot all the mailboxes and newsstands. They’re outside, so you don’t have to deal with the interior dungeon crawls. You’ll get about as much specifically in terms of books and magazines as if you explored the insides. I’d even say it’s kinda cheap, but the devs didn’t put them there by accident.

That is fair, but I was more about this game when it had more player agency. The issue I personally have with these changes is they are arbitrary to extend the gameplay loop. I would rather TFP focus on the campaign/story mode and content rather than constantly tweaking the leveling systems to needlessly extend the gameplay loop to distract from missed milestones.

[Crater Creator]

Originally posted by Womens Deodorant:

Originally posted by Crater Creator:

Excellent post, Ensign Toby.

And it’s worth pointing out this improved chance is tailored to where you spend your skill points. Level 5 in archery will mean you find a lot more bow magazines, proportionally.

For something like a forge, buying one outright from a trader would be another option for players seeking an alternative to looting. Though personally, I preferred when forges and other stations in POIs had a small chance of spawning intact instead of destroyed.

There is a mod that lets you repair workstations found in POIs. Can't pick it up, but you can return to the POI anytime and use the workstation once repaired. Super useful and realistic.

Noted, thanks. I’ve opted to mod back in the random chance of a working workstation (it’s still in the files, commented out). I like this direction because for my game I like having reasons to explore more of the world, and making things work with the hand you’re dealt. But what you describe doesn’t sound bad either.

[8_Hussars]

Originally posted by Raptor:

Maybe I don't understand the new skill system, but it doesn't matter how much you level up if you don't get the right magazines to drop when looting? So what's the point of even staying in one place? It's just loot nonstop until you find enough magazines to actually build effective weapons and structures. Am I understanding that right?

So they force you to loot when every POI is a funhouse that drops zombies and dogs and bears on you, and make you do it with a wooden club unless you get lucky and find a homemade pipe pistol from 1834?

Meh. Looting a key part of the game whether a player wants to improve crafting or a player just wants to level up. Players can get by without crafting much at all if they can scavenge and sell resources for dukes. Selling and building provide great XP boosts.