Loot Balance?

[Osric]

I was at first pleased with the changes to loot so that you didn't stumble on great weapons early game. But the balance is out. I've looted almost the entire first town and I'm still getting hot garbage. Its disheartening to fight your way through a tough POI and find yourself rewarded with your 30th level 6 bow. Its got to the point where I can't be bothered to go looting anymore. I get the same old low grade garbage that just gets scrapped. A bow cannot be sold, I have no use for them because they are endlessly repaired for next to nothing, who needs 20 level 6 bows? So all I get from finishing a POI is 2 wood for the bow and a stone for a level 5 stone axe. What's the point in looting?

I lucked out and got a mixer schematic so I have been simply converting everything in sight to concrete simply to level up so I can make decent equipment, and I'm really not having a great deal of fun. The gameplay loop is pointless.I haven't found anything genuinely pleasing in hours and hours. I'm all in favour of earning progress but it really needs some chance of stumbling on something worth while for the effort if only to throw a curve ball into your play style with a rare lucky find. I appreciate its a difficult balancing act, but there's something amiss when looting POI becomes almost pointless.

[JimmyIowa]

Invest some skill points and craft what you want. One of the intentions of the new balance is to make crafting meaningful again. One of the primary complaints of A17/A18 was that crafting was pointless given that finding end game stuff was so easy early on.

[The Giving One]

Publicado originalmente por Osric:

I was at first pleased with the changes to loot so that you didn't stumble on great weapons early game. But the balance is out. I've looted almost the entire first town and I'm still getting hot garbage.

Because your game stage is not increasing, if you are spending so much time looting and not killing zeds and leveling up, and doing quests from traders to get EXP.

The loot levels with game stage now, so it's not going to be "epic" loot until the game gets harder and harder.

EDIT.......................

Publicado originalmente por Osric:

Its disheartening to fight your way through a tough POI and find yourself rewarded with your 30th level 6 bow. Its got to the point where I can't be bothered to go looting anymore. I get the same old low grade garbage that just gets scrapped. A bow cannot be sold, I have no use for them because they are endlessly repaired for next to nothing, who needs 20 level 6 bows? So all I get from finishing a POI is 2 wood for the bow and a stone for a level 5 stone axe. What's the point in looting?

Wait...

I see the problem here. You are still getting the PRIMITIVE bow, as that one you cannot sell, no. But go find a level 6 compound or even wooden bow, and then come talk to me about getting "hot garbage".

You have not even got past finding the most basic tools and weapons yet. You need to increase your game stage for sure.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

It's your level dude, and your just getting really unlucky. You can find guns on day one. Pistol, hunting rifle, double barrel, it's totally possible.

[The Giving One]

Yep, when I read "you cannot sell a bow", it hit me. OP is apparently just going around and looting and not getting the game state up past finding purple stone axes and purple primitive bows.

Of course the game is only going to give you the most basic stuff, because you are not getting up in game stage high enough yet to even allow for the better items.

[JimmyIowa]

Publicado originalmente por The Giving One:

You have not even got past finding the most basic tools and weapons yet. You need to increase your game stage for sure.

Yep. Honestly TFP should never have introduced the mega-stash at the end of every common house poi. It has raised player expectations that every house is a treasure trove of multiple guns and piles of ammo. And people feel entitled to that now.

A16 wasn't like that. In A16 you could loot 20 houses and find some paper and tin cans. A16 didn't have a mega-stash in each dinky poi, and you had to spend literally weeks finding individual parts to make a single gun. (Anyone who played A16 can confirm this.)

It will be hard to balance crafting with looting now, with player expectations as they are now. They need to shut the every poi Midas stashes off hard and cold now, or plan on some amazing balancing act between crafting and looting from now on.

[Lady MacBeth]

Though sometimes the game just punks you on RNG. In my current int based game I never did find anything above a stone axe lvl 4 all the way to day 15. Then found a lvl 3 iron axe and got a lvl 3 pick axe from a quest. So sometimes these things just happen. My game stage was way over basic tools at this point though as i also found a stage 3 ak that same day.

Edit:said day 18 by mistake, but I'm playing right now am I'm just now on day 18. So it musta been day 15 for the finds.

[The Giving One]

Publicado originalmente por JimmyIowa:

Yep. Honestly TFP should never have introduced the mega-stash at the end of every common house poi. It has literally raised player expectations that every house is a treasure trove of multiple guns and piles of ammo. And people feel entitled to that now.

That is something that I never considered until you just now summed it up here so well. That's what some are apparently doing. They think it's all random loot all the time and just go for the mega stash at the end of the POI, and are only coming up with purple but basic loot now.

I also got to that point like I am sure others have, and was getting purple stone axes, stone shovels, primitive bows, etc. But then I went on past that and was getting better loot because of course, game stage increased.

But apparently OP does not even know that the primitive bow is not the only bow, because OP said you cannot sell a bow. Well, that's not entirely correct, of course, because you can sell the other bows just not the primitive one.

[ladyeternity]

Publicado originalmente por Osric:

I was at first pleased with the changes to loot so that you didn't stumble on great weapons early game. But the balance is out. I've looted almost the entire first town and I'm still getting hot garbage. Its disheartening to fight your way through a tough POI and find yourself rewarded with your 30th level 6 bow. Its got to the point where I can't be bothered to go looting anymore. I get the same old low grade garbage that just gets scrapped. A bow cannot be sold, I have no use for them because they are endlessly repaired for next to nothing, who needs 20 level 6 bows? So all I get from finishing a POI is 2 wood for the bow and a stone for a level 5 stone axe. What's the point in looting?

I lucked out and got a mixer schematic so I have been simply converting everything in sight to concrete simply to level up so I can make decent equipment, and I'm really not having a great deal of fun. The gameplay loop is pointless.I haven't found anything genuinely pleasing in hours and hours. I'm all in favour of earning progress but it really needs some chance of stumbling on something worth while for the effort if only to throw a curve ball into your play style with a rare lucky find. I appreciate its a difficult balancing act, but there's something amiss when looting POI becomes almost pointless.

What is your experience setting at? (in the options)
You said clearing POI's. Are you questing or just going from one POI to another?
When you say 'clearing', you mean killing all the zeds in the POI right?

In game, press F1 (brings up the console), type in gamestage and hit enter. What does it say your gamestage is?

I don't start really finding loot worth anything (exception are really lucky drops) till around Gamestage 30 and upwards. Gamestage is a multiplier that is affected by difficulty, player level and if you have died. Each time you die it decreases your gamestage. Anyway, post your gamestage so we can see what it's at.

[Lady MacBeth]

Supposedly Markiplier was playing the game again recently. So probably getting an influx of new players who don't know how things work from there also. And lets face it anyone watching his video's probably isn't learning anything at all prior to jumping into the game. (that being said I did like markipliers oxygen not included videos, I still need to buy that game at some point)

[The Giving One]

Yea, I know just where the OP is as I was there. Every container had level 6 primitive bows, level 6 stone axes, and level 6 stone shovels, which were all great to have at first, but later on, as I kept getting more and more of them, I was also wondering when the good loot would come.

But I kept telling myself that it was my game stage. So apparently, that is exactly where OP is, as I am sure other players were or are. It's at least nice the Pimps are giving us level 6 items pretty early on, but it's balanced because traders won't buy them, but you can still add in 4 mods to them and have a pretty nice tool or weapon early on.

Heck, I am still using my purple stone axe for minor things in the game now, as I have all the mod slots in it filled up and it actually does pretty well even later in the game.

[Lady MacBeth]

Publicado originalmente por ladyeternity:

In game, press F1 (brings up the console), type in gamestage and hit enter. What does it say your gamestage is?

I don't start really finding loot worth anything (exception are really lucky drops) till around Gamestage 30 and upwards. Gamestage is a multiplier that is affected by difficulty, player level and if you have died. Each time you die it decreases your gamestage. Anyway, post your gamestage so we can see what it's at.

Gamestage no longer has a difficulty modifier as of a19. Its a flat 1.2 multiplier no matter what difficulty you play on.

Also theres not need to go into F1 to do this. If you go into the multiplayer section of the menu your gamestage has been displayed there since at least a17.

[Osric]

I have 1500 hours in game. I'm doing everything I've done since god knows which alpha. I have cleared an entire town almost. I'm not asking for mega loot. I'm asking that just once in a while, no matter how rare, the game throws up something useful. Suggesting I'm whining for not getting a level 5 m60 at the top of every POI is somewhat mis-characterising what the problem is. So far the best I've had is a level 2 rifle by day 21 having cleared all but the giant Shotgun Messiah because I'm not going to wade through that, despite being capable, and waste it for another 10 bows. The loot is improving with my gamestage, its just its so far behind its never as good as what I've already crafted, so I'm always just collecting junk.Some of the armor is good, but its all heavy and I'm building light. I've literally gone "ooh that's nice" about 3 times in 21 days. At this point I'd be excited for a potato seed recipe.

I was enjoying the extra rarity at first, its a step in the right direction, I like being forced to use the blunderbus. Its good that early game tools and weapons are useful again. I like not being kitted out by day 10.But it needs a little balancing as the pendulum has swung too far at certain stages and the endless stone tools is just too much. I just think they need to lob the occasional nugget into the mix.

[Lady MacBeth]

Sounds like you had bad luck then. I had a tier 3 ak by day 15 from a drop. Rng is rng. Though primative weapons are coming for all gun types soon so that will help alot with the early game issues when pipegun, pipe rifle and pipe shotgun (replaces blundy) come in.

Found tier 1 ak day 5 like i said earlier. Though its worth mentioning at the time I hadn't found my nerdy glasses yet so I was wearing +4 looting googles.

Also makes me wonder what your day 21 game stage was. I'm currently on day 18 game stage 49, with one bs death on day 4 thanks to a flock of vultures swarming my minibike.

[Danson]

Your time played doesn't mean anything in terms of this new system, and your strategy or how much you've looted doesn't mean anything either. What level are you, and what is your gamestage?

[Osric]

It doesn't matter. The fact is I'm bored and not having much fun. At no point should you feel like you're pointlessly collecting junk.