Why even have voxels?

[Jumboman]

I bought this game in Alpha 5, almost 10 years ago. Back then the game clearly aspired to be 'minecraft, but with actual zombies'. Which is fine! And for a while, it seemed like that they were succeeding; The best strategy didn't focus solely on mining, farming, looting or killing zombies, but a little bit of everything. This gave the voxels some meaning.

fast forward 10 years and look at all the survival crafting games out there that do everything 7dtd does: crafting, looting, killing zombies and base building are in every non-voxel game. Meanwhile mining in 7dtd has become pretty useless. At this point, does the game being voxel-based even add anything or is it just a performance drain?

jfc I know tfp can't go back on that decision anymore. I just wonder, with the game that they're trying to make right now (a looter shooter more like Fallout) if they regret that decision.

[restarter]

I've asked myself the same question. While it offers an amazing sense of freedom in creation and a almost literal sandbox experience, it does seem rather pointless now. I cant remember the last time I dug out linking tunnels between two or more POI's or an underground luxury bunker. I Did that a lot back in the day. While I have had a lot of fun with the new game I do wonder how much is actually limited by it being voxel. I figure its just one of those games that will go down as an unfinished idea that got a ♥♥♥♥ ton of use and was well worth the $13 i spent on it back on 2014. its an achievement for sure.

That being said I think the killing machines that people make are pretty damn impressive. I suppose that is the major allure along with all the other parts of the game. I just don't have the ability to make such amazing structures so maybe thats just my lack of creativity and talent. My structures end up looking like a 4 year old made them and zombies just destroy them. thats fine it part of the game, but hwen I realize I just spent hours on some ridiculous broken ass structure it makes me feel sad.

[Crater Creator]

I disagree that mining is useless. It’s not necessary, with alternative play styles being viable. But I always wind up making one or more mines to acquire large quantities of minerals. And while some will find it tedious no matter what, I enjoy the layers to mining now required to achieve peak efficiency.

However, it is my personal belief that if the devs were to do it all again, they wouldn’t go with a voxel world. I agree that it is simply baked into this game, and TFP will just endeavor to make the best of that early decision.

Voxels are a tradeoff; there’s no way around it. And to this day, not everyone gets that. Some still ask why this game doesn’t look as good or perform as well as non-voxel games. ‘Because of voxels’ doesn’t have to satisfy everyone to still be valid.

The other thing I’ll say about voxels is, I feel the game is still scratching the surface, literally. We used to have randomly generated caves, which are such an obvious, interesting use of all that randomly generated, 3D voxel space under our feet. Now that the game has better occlusion, visual feedback for structural integrity, and a more finalized system for placing POIs around roads, I’d sure like to see caves make a return. Not pre-made POI caves that any game could do, but different-every-time caves, to take advantage of the voxel world.

[Alucard †]

Originally posted by Crater Creator:

The other thing I’ll say about voxels is, I feel the game is still scratching the surface, literally. We used to have randomly generated caves, which are such an obvious, interesting use of all that randomly generated, 3D voxel space under our feet. Now that the game has better occlusion, visual feedback for structural integrity, and a more finalized system for placing POIs around roads, I’d sure like to see caves make a return. Not pre-made POI caves that any game could do, but different-every-time caves, to take advantage of the voxel world.

And have missions in said caves to extract rare minerals while defending against hordes of giant bugs - that would be good especially in co-op ... wait no .. wrong game with voxel graphics.

[grab these bandages]

Originally posted by Jumboman:

all the survival crafting games out there that do everything 7dtd does

Ehhm, what? There is no more games exists like 7D2D

[Blue Hasia]

Originally posted by restarter:

I've asked myself the same question. While it offers an amazing sense of freedom in creation and a almost literal sandbox experience, it does seem rather pointless now. I cant remember the last time I dug out linking tunnels between two or more POI's or an underground luxury bunker. I Did that a lot back in the day. While I have had a lot of fun with the new game I do wonder how much is actually limited by it being voxel. I figure its just one of those games that will go down as an unfinished idea that got a ♥♥♥♥ ton of use and was well worth the $13 i spent on it back on 2014. its an achievement for sure.

That being said I think the killing machines that people make are pretty damn impressive. I suppose that is the major allure along with all the other parts of the game. I just don't have the ability to make such amazing structures so maybe thats just my lack of creativity and talent. My structures end up looking like a 4 year old made them and zombies just destroy them. thats fine it part of the game, but hwen I realize I just spent hours on some ridiculous broken ass structure it makes me feel sad.

Probably stopped doing the tunnels once they either got rid of learn by doing. i know a lot of people dug tunnels for the experience.

and also when they let zombies dig down so we were no longer that safe underground

[Roland]

Many people have an everyday base with all their loot and crafting stations and then a separate horde base where they face off against the horde. For that style of play, an underground everyday base is still very viable and fun to have and excavate. People worry about the digging zombies but honestly without the blood moon gps abilities of normal everyday zombies you really are quite safe in an underground base seven days and six nights of the week.

I understand what the OP is saying about how the game doesn't seem to highlight its own voxel nature but seems to exist in spite of it. I would like to see more mechanics and features in the game that take advantage of its voxel nature and hopefully they will explore that once they release the game to 1.0 status.

For now, they need to just finish the missing features and get the game optimized and polished and released. Then they can do updates much like minecraft has done that can add content to under ground and under water exploration in a way only a voxel environment can deliver.

[James]

Well put Crater. Especially about the voxel trade-off and 7 days not even scratching the surface of it's possibilities.

Voxel may not look great from a visual aspect but the amount of extensibility and flexibility it offers is hard to beat, if not impossible right now. If this wasn't the case, then we would have already seen a game (or many games) with a fully destructible worlds, and we haven't.

Originally posted by Roland:

Many people have an everyday base with all their loot and crafting stations and then a separate horde base where they face off against the horde. For that style of play, an underground everyday base is still very viable and fun to have and excavate. People worry about the digging zombies but honestly without the blood moon gps abilities of normal everyday zombies you really are quite safe in an underground base seven days and six nights of the week.

To your point, I play different ways each time and I've never once found a way to play the game without having to mine. It's too important and I don't even worry about digging zombies. I find the ore I'm looking for and I dig straight down, creating one single hole, which creates an easy way for the zombies to get to me but also funnels them. In early game, it's easy to deal with. Mid to late game I use robotic turrets facing the single hole to deal with the zombies and I never have to worry. Especially after maxing out robotics when I can use two active turrets.

Originally posted by Roland:

I understand what the OP is saying about how the game doesn't seem to highlight its own voxel nature but seems to exist in spite of it. I would like to see more mechanics and features in the game that take advantage of its voxel nature and hopefully they will explore that once they release the game to 1.0 status.

For now, they need to just finish the missing features and get the game optimized and polished and released. Then they can do updates much like minecraft has done that can add content to under ground and under water exploration in a way only a voxel environment can deliver.

This is what I'm hoping for too. I've never played minecraft but I do hope tfp continues to build on this game for years even after it's 1.0 release. And not just for a year or so, like a lot of developers seem to do. Between UR engine/voxel continuing to support additions and 7 Days untapped potential, I think it would be a mistake to just stop after they fulfill their kickstarter obligations and move on to the next game.

[SiEgE]

Originally posted by Jumboman:

... and base building are in every non-voxel game. Meanwhile mining in 7dtd has become pretty useless. At this point, does the game being voxel-based even add anything or is it just a performance drain?...

I'm kinda failing to get the point.. Are you against the game having dynamic world? Like, completely remove structural integrity, the base building aspect and redo AI to navigate in a static world?

[minisith]

Originally posted by Jumboman:

I bought this game in Alpha 5, almost 10 years ago. Back then the game clearly aspired to be 'minecraft, but with actual zombies'. Which is fine! And for a while, it seemed like that they were succeeding; The best strategy didn't focus solely on mining, farming, looting or killing zombies, but a little bit of everything. This gave the voxels some meaning.

fast forward 10 years and look at all the survival crafting games out there that do everything 7dtd does: crafting, looting, killing zombies and base building are in every non-voxel game. Meanwhile mining in 7dtd has become pretty useless. At this point, does the game being voxel-based even add anything or is it just a performance drain?

jfc I know tfp can't go back on that decision anymore. I just wonder, with the game that they're trying to make right now (a looter shooter more like Fallout) if they regret that decision.

The base building and building damages are directly thanks to voxels. Its is all around you in game.

[MoistGamer]

hmm. I hadnt thought about this in quite some time. I wonder what % of players goes (just random picking here) 10 blocks down on the Y axis or below. Interesting... I'm not sure.

I for one never dig deep, no need. You have all the surface nodes youd ever need.

True, mines could just be pre-created holes in the ground with chunks you mine in there, ala Starfield and others.

It does seem kind of pointless now, in hindsight.

[BigRowdy]

Played most of the rest 7 days is STILL the best, with mods. I love that it is voxel.

[Jumboman]

Originally posted by minisith:

The base building and building damages are directly thanks to voxels. Its is all around you in game.

Ark, green hell, raft, grounded, stranded, the forest, and so on and so forth: all of them have base building with building damage. Just because developers didn't see a reason to make every structure destructible doesn't mean that they couldn't have done so; their engines clearly allow it. And, lets be honest here; how "fully destructible" are the higher tier POI's anyway? It's all steel and concrete with ONE entry point that you can destruct in 5 hits; trying to get in any other way takes a loooooong time.

[thestile]

A lot of the opinion on this would be influenced by how much the player likes reshaping the world.
I like digging out tunnels and manipulating the landscape.

I also like knocking out walls and reforming the POIs. But maybe that part could be done without an entirely voxel game. I'm not sure about that part.

It's an interesting question though.

[lumina]

Originally posted by Jumboman:

Originally posted by minisith:

The base building and building damages are directly thanks to voxels. Its is all around you in game.

Ark, green hell, raft, grounded, stranded, the forest, and so on and so forth: all of them have base building with building damage. Just because developers didn't see a reason to make every structure destructible doesn't mean that they couldn't have done so; their engines clearly allow it. And, lets be honest here; how "fully destructible" are the higher tier POI's anyway? It's all steel and concrete with ONE entry point that you can destruct in 5 hits; trying to get in any other way takes a loooooong time.

They have a lot of destructible stuff in them. And they don't take a long time to knock down other parts if you use higher tier tools. If you are just using a stone ax on higher tier content, then yeah it'll take a while to knock through it.

That said, they've clearly designed them for you to go from start to finish the route they want, unless you are doing a simple retrieval mission.

[Ankido]

The building mechanics in 7 Days to Die using voxels are generally alright, though it gets frustrating when you realize a half-block won't sit next to a full block. Initially pitched as a Minecraft concept, 7D2D still feels like a missed opportunity. If I were on the developer team, I'd explore a Minecraft-esque direction, perhaps incorporating a portal that leads to a world brimming with resources. That kind of twist could truly elevate its replay value, akin to Minecraft's Modpacks.

What started as a promising idea seemed to spiral into a tower defense experience, centered around defending a chosen POI every 7 days. It lacks the survival essence it initially promised. Watching Direwolf play Minecraft 1.20 Season 13 has even sparked the urge to dive back into Minecraft. If Alpha 22 doesn't meet expectations, it might be a while before 7D2D grabs my attention again. I think I even missed versions a18 and a19. 7D2D is becoming boring.