Suggestion: make horde nights tougher yet. . . in fact, make them impossible.

[TruculentTonka]

Now I know that there are difficulty sliders and I use them but this suggestion speaks more to the intent and spirit of the game itself.

My logic is that as you remain in one place with successive horde nights, it should draw in exponentially more and more zeds, faster and faster (and indeed continuously) because they are now (I know, they are mindless zeds, but let's call it awareness of some sort) . The point is not that you are killed (well, yeah) but that you are forced to move on to greener () pastures and start again, meaning you escape if your defences are breached., which means that your base is predictably destroyed. Settling, for example, in cities should be absolutely impossible long before the 7 day night comes. Logic would have it that the number of zeds there would rule out base-building of even the most stealthy variety. The more remote the fewer the zeds, but then you might be faced with feral animals instead and without easy access to the prizes contained in urban areas.

From my time with the game, what I came to realise is that the game is just about perfect on default settings but that the bases can quickly outstrip the zeds, so I think making fortresses should become impossible.

This would help retain that early game feel and fear that I cdoun so compelling when I first played the game. This could be mitigated somewhat by increased perception and evasion abilities as one survives over time.

And all of this of course would be complimented by the removal of all mechanical transportation (horses anyone?) though perhaps bikes could still feature and hopefully more prominently with a towed cart? This would also help stimulate FP to create more biomes and regions. I would love to see movement between distinct maps, even.

I came to this conclusion when watching the TWD series. In my opinion the best periods of that series were always when they were on the run. I should like very much to see that spirit made manifest in 7DTD by default, though I know many will probably be against it because of how much fun base-building is. Perhaps the emphasis can be placed instead on forging equipment, etc?

That all being said, I still think that 7DTD is abso far king brilliant.

[Macdallan]

I don't dislike the idea but you can already make horde nights tougher, or easier. To make them harder do this:

Set the blood moon to occur daily. Max the number of zombies that spawn per player. Max enemy damage to blocks, max zombie run speed - set it to feral 100% of the time. Max the game difficultly and reduce loot to 25%. Reduce player block damage to 25%, turn off air drops, turn off loot respawn.

Easier? Swap those settings. Reduce blood moon frequency and make it so 4 zombies per player will spawn. Zombies always walk at all times. Turn zombie block damage to 25%, set player block damage to max. Set loot at the highest percentage, and make loot respawn quickly. Set daily air drops. Set game difficulty to the minimum.

I do see you're talking about more than just those settings, and I like some of your ideas.

I don't agree that settling in cities should be impossible but it shouldn't be simple like it is now. Part of the issue is the lack of zombies. There aren't enough wandering around, and there are far too few in buildings. We used to have decent sized hordes, now we get 6 to 8 sometimes, usually less, and you rarely see them.

Anyway, if you're quiet and careful it shouldn't be too hard to maintain a base in a city but I like the idea that if you make too much noise or attract too much attention then zombies (or bandits once implemented) will be attracted to your base and you'll risk losing it.

I do like the idea of setting the game up so it's possible to move around more, and that it would actually be beneficial to do so in some circumstances. Carts and other modes of transportation (RV or a camping trailer) are good ideas, so are tents, yurts, and other small shelters that can be packed up and moved.

I feel like the tower defense focus the devs. seem to have had lately has managed to drag this game away from being a decent zombie horde survival crafting game and pushed it into the realm of an arcade action game that happens to have some survival elements taped to it.

Lately there's been way too much focus on silly things like magic items that provide unrealistic bonuses, a stupid stat/perk system, magical drones, etc. instead of good survival mechanics and a real threat from zombies finding your base. GPS zombies are ridiculous, but a huge horde that happens to wander into your camp and stop there? A horde you simply can't deal with? A horde that numbers in the thousands? Now that's interesting and a real threat (if they code the AI well enough and make zombies a real threat again). Zombies in the world that aren't just XP pinatas and pose a real threat regardless of how long you've been playing or how good your gear is? That would be great.

[TruculentTonka]

Great thoughts. I especially like your ideas about the portable shelters and massed apocalyptic zombie hordes overrunning the base.

You're right, I would prefer a mobile challenge here, one in which enemies and challenges evolve as you move. I think that the emphasis on stealth needs to be far more important-whether in populated regions with zeds or in natural setting with monsters. Perhaps that would entirely reconfigure and overhaul the game but not the way I see it. The sliders could help but I also think, like other games, perhaps a different mode setting might work, too.

[Flyingbox]

As weeks go on the difficulty ramps up and then the hordes become so impossible that you might as well reset the world or modify the trader to not kick you out. Hordes already start with zombies immediately being aware of your location and spawning close enough to fly at you at a per-player count.

[TruculentTonka]

Lol, Flyingbox, I get that.
I guess I was merely wondering aloud what this might look like if players were forced to keep on the move, which I feel is more than likely in such a hypothetical world, though there are enough zombies in our own world aren't there?
That would, as I said, necessitate new maps and having to load into them in-game.
Also, having to build an ad hoc base every night would prove quite a challenge but would require some retooling of the game mechanics.

[Mithrandir]

It would be nice eventually if higher difficulty levels would introduce tougher mechanics like more wandering hordes or tougher and longer BM fights, but keep lower difficulty as they are for new players or those who want less challenges.

[Veeshan]

Messaggio originale di TruculentTonka:

Lol, Flyingbox, I get that.
I guess I was merely wondering aloud what this might look like if players were forced to keep on the move, which I feel is more than likely in such a hypothetical world, though there are enough zombies in our own world aren't there?
That would, as I said, necessitate new maps and having to load into them in-game.
Also, having to build an ad hoc base every night would prove quite a challenge but would require some retooling of the game mechanics.

It may not, as you can modify the day cycle length. Maybe mobile playthrough come with longer days.

[TruculentTonka]

Good points, all.

[Sprocket66]

Mods will do it for you. Try Duriel's More Zombies and Larger Hordes x16. Never ending wandering hordes and very big horde night. Makes living downtown in the wasteland very active.

[TruculentTonka]

Lol, I bet. I'll have to look these up.

[Bo0Mz]

just set horde night to 64 zombies and watch rads and demos tear your base apart

[TruculentTonka]

I was thinking more Romeroesque herds of zombies rather than the super-zombies we are seeing here. See Macdallan's observations above.

[Crater Creator]

I think I get what's driving your sentiment, OP. I share your desire for reasons to explore more of the map; for location to matter more. I have long contemplated what a 'nomad mod' would do differently.

I think screamers are the closest thing we have now - a mechanic designed to ramp up the zombie resistance as you get more and more entrenched/involved in one area.

I think my biggest problem with what you propose is that it's all stick and no carrot. Contrast that with what the devs are actually doing. Notably, they're diversifying the biomes, giving some of them greater risks and greater rewards. That way, there's a reason to go there, and a reason to stay away. The player has more interesting choices to make about where to go.

I suspect nudging the player harder and harder with more and tougher zombies to get them to move will feel like the game is just grueling, unbalanced, and trying to beat the player into submission. Perhaps instead, there could be e.g. a weather event that makes areas of the map dynamically uninhabitable. Like, you see a radiation storm on the horizon, and you know it's going to roll through your base tomorrow. If you stay, it will simply kill you. It won't destroy your stuff and it won't take an untenable number of CPU cycles, but you do need to relocate.

[TruculentTonka]

Crater Creator, I do like the idea of dynamic weather and radiation events, too. Anything to create greater immersion. This is why I do so enjoy 7DTD; the devs strike me as thoughtful and responsive to reasonable and thematically consistent suggestions from community.

I love the base building in 7, don't get me wrong. Indeed, I have sung its praises to others. However, establishing a strongly defensible base should take more time and resources that what is possible at present is what I am saying. And I do not want reality, but I still hold in addition that urban areas would be impossible to occupy in such a situation without an army properly equipped.

My thinking was more along the lines of forcing the starting (or even until mid game) players into the most relatively safe areas of the map-the wilderness. There should be areas in those places that lend themselves to temporary shelters and defences even for horde nights (which out there should be relatively manageable, again due to geographic population density and the inhospitable terrain/climate), until the player has gained skills, scavenged and looted enough to create something more permanent (I still have reservations about building close to towns and cities, but perhaps that is more feasible after a certain level of progression.)

I see the great potential of wilderness survival here and feel it as been largely overlooked, which considering the hunting mechanic and the artistic work is a real pity. (Of course farming needs to be more intuitive and accessible in the wilds (wild seed,etc). The devs "diversifying the biomes" (which I heartily endorse) would naturally () complement such a reorientation.

Overall, I think that such an enhanced design would provide players with a far more structured and logical game progression.

Anyhow, just my 2c.

[Crater Creator]

Messaggio originale di TruculentTonka:

The fact that they devs are actually creating more biomes (which I heartily endorse) would naturally () complement such a reorientation.

They are? That's news to me.

[TruculentTonka]

Edit: "Diversifying the biomes." Not quite the same but still speaks to my original point.