Randomized Item Stats

[Drake Ravenwolf]

Do you think they are a good thing or a bad thing?

aka make two weapons of the same tier and they could still have different stats, same for armor and clothes

I was considering making a mod that removed the randomization so that each item always had the best stats possible for its tier - items of different tiers would still have different stats, but what do you think?

[Brevan]

I think I'd notice that for something like Tools (so frustrating to do 199 damage to a block with 600hp), but against Zs I rarely notice a higher damage weapon using fewer hits to kill stuff. For example, when I first start a game it usually takes 3 power attacks with a rank 1 wood club to kill stuff, and it still takes 3 hits with a rank 5 wood club (primitive stuff doesn't have random stats already, so rank 5 is definitely "stronger" than rank 1, but I don't notice).

[seven]

I think randomized stats are fine. It's a small victory to find a level 3 pistol that's a bit better than the one you have. Otherwise it' 'oh, another level 3 pistol. meh'. What I don't like is the range of the random stats. Finding a level 4 pistol that is worse than the level 3 you already have is a real disappointment, and it doesn't have an extra mod slot so there is no advantage. I think higher tier weapons/tools/whatever should always be better or at least as good as the lower tier.

[Drake Ravenwolf]

Originally posted by seven:

I think randomized stats are fine. It's a small victory to find a level 3 pistol that's a bit better than the one you have. Otherwise it' 'oh, another level 3 pistol. meh'. What I don't like is the range of the random stats. Finding a level 4 pistol that is worse than the level 3 you already have is a real disappointment, and it doesn't have an extra mod slot so there is no advantage. I think higher tier weapons/tools/whatever should always be better or at least as good as the lower tier.

This echos some of my doubts. If you get all perfect tier 6s then what drive is there to continue playing... on the other hand I hate the idea of making a tier 5 and then "having" to make several more just to get the best stats on it... For myself I think I'd activate the mod while crafting and then turn it off at all other times...

[mathaniel]

Well without any mods on the same weapon say a lvl 3 and a lvl 4 weapon, say cap pistol early game. will not the lvl 4 have just a tiny amount more dam. or am I wrong? I mean like negligible in only a number of like a bare point? Range is still the same though? Doesn`t make sense to me that the same weapon, bare bones has the exact stats. The only difference with mods would be effects of mod yeah? The dam goes up even if you put a shovel dirt digger mod in it lol.

[Drake Ravenwolf]

Originally posted by mathaniel:

Well without any mods on the same weapon say a lvl 3 and a lvl 4 weapon, say cap pistol early game. will not the lvl 4 have just a tiny amount more dam. or am I wrong? I mean like negligible in only a number of like a bare point? Range is still the same though? Doesn`t make sense to me that the same weapon, bare bones has the exact stats. The only difference with mods would be effects of mod yeah? The dam goes up even if you put a shovel dirt digger mod in it lol.

Tools are coded to (usually) give a 10% damage bonus with each mod installed in it as well as a 300 duke value increase per

so called "tier 0" weapons have no randomness to them - a tier 5 stone shovel is always the same as every other tier 5 stone shovel (not counting installing mods)

RNG can make a T1+ weapon have + or - 15% while each tier only conveys a +10% bonus so yes it should be possible to find a tier 4 gun that was worse than a tier 3 one

But RNG is used in more than just damage eg:

		<passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="perc_add" value="-.15,.15" tags="perkBoomstick"/> <!-- random EntityDmg -->
		<passive_effect name="BlockDamage" operation="perc_add" value="-.15,.15" tags="perkBoomstick"/> <!-- random BlockDmg -->
		<passive_effect name="DegradationMax" operation="perc_add" value="-.2,.2" tags="perkBoomstick"/> <!-- random DegMax -->
		<passive_effect name="RoundsPerMinute" operation="perc_add" value="-.05,.05" tags="perkBoomstick"/> <!-- random APM -->
		<passive_effect name="MagazineSize" operation="perc_add" value="-.122,.24"/> <!-- random MagazineSize -->
		<passive_effect name="WeaponHandling" operation="perc_add" value="-.085,.085" tags="perkBoomstick"/> <!-- random WeaponHandling -->

[Crater Creator]

I think the test is this. Have you ever found an item of the same type and quality as the one you were already using (like e.g. a green pistol), and been happy to replace your old one with it because the new one has better stats? Or are you still always underwhelmed, because you already had one of those?

Because that’s what the feature is intended to address: a reason to keep looting even when you won’t find a better quality.

[Drake Ravenwolf]

Originally posted by Crater Creator:

I think the test is this. Have you ever found an item of the same type and quality as the one you were already using (like e.g. a green pistol), and been happy to replace your old one with it because the new one has better stats? Or are you still always underwhelmed, because you already had one of those?

Because that’s what the feature is intended to address: a reason to keep looting even when you won’t find a better quality.

I think there is value in the effort, even if I don't use it all the time and if it'd have value to me I think it is worth putting out there for others...
Thing is some of these values higher = better but then others lower = better; help me out here? Do any of the following follow golf scoring rules?

AttacksPerMinute
BlockDamage
DamageFalloffRange (higher number is better... right?)
DegradationMax (durability or is this durability loss?)
EntityDamage
MagazineSize
ProjectileVelocity
RoundsPerMinute
StaminaLoss (if any of them, this one has to be better when a lower number... right?)
WeaponHandling

[mathaniel]

2 exactly alike will have different stats? 2 lvl 3 pistols can have different stats? I`ll swan, I never noticed. I just see the level number and if it isn`t higher I move along nothing to see here. I`m going to play in a bit and you know, I`m going to snatch a couple and look now. Maybe I`ve played too long. ps they don`t need any little tricks to keep me looting my friend. I play solo, always have. But, After I loot say a forest Biome, it looks just like a wasteland biome, nothing left to scrap, cut, pick up or, loot;-)

[Drake Ravenwolf]

Originally posted by mathaniel:

2 exactly alike will have different stats? 2 lvl 3 pistols can have different stats? I`ll swan, I never noticed. I just see the level number and if it isn`t higher I move along nothing to see here. I`m going to play in a bit and you know, I`m going to snatch a couple and look now. Maybe I`ve played too long. ps they don`t need any little tricks to keep me looting my friend. I play solo, always have. But, After I loot say a forest Biome, it looks just like a wasteland biome, nothing left to scrap, cut, pick up or, loot;-)

Again keep in mind that what the game classifies as a T0 weapon will not have RNG in its stats only T1+ aka stone axe? no, but iron or steel? yes

[Crater Creator]

Originally posted by Drake Ravenwolf:

Originally posted by Crater Creator:

I think the test is this. Have you ever found an item of the same type and quality as the one you were already using (like e.g. a green pistol), and been happy to replace your old one with it because the new one has better stats? Or are you still always underwhelmed, because you already had one of those?

Because that’s what the feature is intended to address: a reason to keep looting even when you won’t find a better quality.

I think there is value in the effort, even if I don't use it all the time and if it'd have value to me I think it is worth putting out there for others...
Thing is some of these values higher = better but then others lower = better; help me out here? Do any of the following follow golf scoring rules?

AttacksPerMinute
BlockDamage
DamageFalloffRange (higher number is better... right?)
DegradationMax (durability or is this durability loss?)
EntityDamage
MagazineSize
ProjectileVelocity
RoundsPerMinute
StaminaLoss (if any of them, this one has to be better when a lower number... right?)
WeaponHandling

I think all of those are larger = better, except for StaminaLoss and I’m not sure about WeaponHandling. But if you’re to the point of actually modifying the files, I’d ask that you ask questions in a new thread in the Modding sub-forum.

[mathaniel]

ahhh, cool. I may have a butt ton of time and grade in this game but not real game savy;)

[Drake Ravenwolf]

Originally posted by Crater Creator:

Originally posted by Drake Ravenwolf:

I think there is value in the effort, even if I don't use it all the time and if it'd have value to me I think it is worth putting out there for others...
Thing is some of these values higher = better but then others lower = better; help me out here? Do any of the following follow golf scoring rules?

AttacksPerMinute
BlockDamage
DamageFalloffRange (higher number is better... right?)
DegradationMax (durability or is this durability loss?)
EntityDamage
MagazineSize
ProjectileVelocity
RoundsPerMinute
StaminaLoss (if any of them, this one has to be better when a lower number... right?)
WeaponHandling

I think all of those are larger = better, except for StaminaLoss and I’m not sure about WeaponHandling. But if you’re to the point of actually modifying the files, I’d ask that you ask questions in a new thread in the Modding sub-forum.

K, I'll stay on-topic here :-P

btw I found a bug in the code for turrets and made a post about it in the correct forum :-P

[gemdidit]

Originally posted by Drake Ravenwolf:

Do you think they are a good thing or a bad thing?

aka make two weapons of the same tier and they could still have different stats, same for armor and clothes

I was considering making a mod that removed the randomization so that each item always had the best stats possible for its tier - items of different tiers would still have different stats, but what do you think?

Hey Drake .. In regards to your question .. I am so accustom to the RNG in weapons, I am not sure a mod to remove it would be attractive to me. .. However, a Mod that allowed you to repair a weapon with the same weapon and max out the stats would be more interesting. . . It would be like if you took the best parts off both and made it the best it could be.

Best of luck with whatever you decide .. Cheers!

[Drake Ravenwolf]

Originally posted by gemdidit:

Originally posted by Drake Ravenwolf:

Do you think they are a good thing or a bad thing?

aka make two weapons of the same tier and they could still have different stats, same for armor and clothes

I was considering making a mod that removed the randomization so that each item always had the best stats possible for its tier - items of different tiers would still have different stats, but what do you think?

Hey Drake .. In regards to your question .. I am so accustom to the RNG in weapons, I am not sure a mod to remove it would be attractive to me. .. However, a Mod that allowed you to repair a weapon with the same weapon and max out the stats would be more interesting. . . It would be like if you took the best parts off both and made it the best it could be.

Best of luck with whatever you decide .. Cheers!

I agree that would be cool... but I don't think that'd be possible... at least not from what I've seen in the code

[Crater Creator]

Originally posted by gemdidit:

.. However, a Mod that allowed you to repair a weapon with the same weapon and max out the stats would be more interesting. . . It would be like if you took the best parts off both and made it the best it could be.

Best of luck with whatever you decide .. Cheers!

I have modded items so that they're repaired with their parts, where applicable, and I think it works well. It doesn't change the stats though - that may be difficult. We use to have a combine function on the workbench, which took two items as input and yielded one better item as output.