Any plans for a more flexible voxel-based building system?

[ThoricSatsuma37]

I find the current building system to be rather clunky in many cases. The limitation that only one block "object" can be placed in one block "space" seems like it is a very simple and straightforward approach implementation-wise, but it leads to some awkward and annoying issues when building.

Two examples I have in mind:

- not being able to place anything (like a turret or torch) on top of what might look like a flat surface because its actually the bottom slice of a mostly transparent block

- awkwardness with inside corners because both faces belong to the same block, making it somewhat difficult to make outcroppings on walls if you want them to be symmetric and clean-looking

I wouldn't be surprised if changing this would simply be impractical due to the structural integrity system and the potential need for scaling block HP based on volume to prevent, but other voxel-based games like Minecraft have found at least partial solutions that exempt some items and blocks from these limitations, and even more significant flexibility through mods. The partial blocks already allow collision-free movement through the empty spaces, for players and zombies, so it feels a bit inconsistent that other things follow different rules

I'm sure in the long time this game has been in development this topic has come up several times, but I couldn't find the right terms to search for. If there are other threads on this, please direct me to them. Otherwise, I'm just curious if there have been any feedback from the devs on this, or potential for addressing this through mods.

[Midas]

The "limitation that only one block "object" can be placed in one block "space"" is literally how a voxel system works. It's a three-dimensional grid where each cell can have one thing in it.

[Roxxapo]

I hate to break it to you buddy, but there's no way this will ever happen. At least not in 7 Days to Die.
If this game ever gets finished then maybe the Fun Pimps could implement it in their next project before a mountain of dependencies and mechanics are piled on top of the "block" system.

[Bo0Mz]

dont give the devs ideas to waste another year of development

[Macdallan]

Originally posted by Midas:

The "limitation that only one block "object" can be placed in one block "space"" is literally how a voxel system works. It's a three-dimensional grid where each cell can have one thing in it.

Yep... but I get where the OP is coming from even though that is exactly how voxel systems function and there's no way around it. Because of the voxel system you can't build a block across a paint line on a road in the game because the paint line takes up the entire "block" above the road's surface. It's also why you can't build a spike trap on top of a small rock that's on the ground. The rock takes up the entire block. It doesn't look like those things should occupy the whole space but they do. Partial blocks (corners, 1/4 blocks, thin planks/boards, wood and iron bars, etc. all take up a whole block even if they look like they take up 1/4 or less of one side of the block.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voxel

[Macdallan]

Originally posted by Bo0Mz:

dont give the devs ideas to waste another year of development

Yeah, they come up with enough of those on their own. They don't need our help.

[MoistGamer]

she's seen 3 presidents and may see four!

A traveled lass.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Midas:

The "limitation that only one block "object" can be placed in one block "space"" is literally how a voxel system works. It's a three-dimensional grid where each cell can have one thing in it.

This. This 'inflexible' system is literally how voxels work. Minecraft is subject to the same limitations; Every game that utilizes voxels for it's world space is.

Imagine an electronic picture, and all it's pixels- Now imagine making each pixel 3d, and you have what we know as voxels.

Each voxel is, fundamentally, one pixel. Try parking your car in an occupied space- It doesn't work. You're asking to put a pixel inside a pixel. It just doesn't work that way.

You could increase the resolution- Get more pixels in the same space; But you'd still have individual pixels that can't intersect. But, the higher the resolution, the more taxing it becomes on the system.

You could create highly specialized shapes that incorporate several desirable features; But at the end of the day, it's..still just one 'pixel', one voxel; not two in the same space. And like increasing the resolution, the more you do this, the heavier the load on the system becomes- So just making every conceivable combination available isn't really an option.

Could do some other things too; But at the end of the day you're still looking at 1 voxel = 1 object. One space, One thing to fill the space. If the space is filled....it's filled.

[...👑 JOST AMMAN 👑...]

One improvement they could do, which IMO wouldn't be THAT costly, is to NOT allow some blocks to be placed on each other IF that means you'll have the infamous floating blocks.

That would also need to take into account block rotation of course. So, for example, a plate block placed with the face on the bottom or side, would be ok. But the same plate placed face up, would crumble to the ground.

[Macdallan]

Originally posted by ⚜ JOST AMMAN ⚜:

One improvement they could do, which IMO wouldn't be THAT costly, is to NOT allow some blocks to be placed on each other IF that means you'll have the infamous floating blocks.

That would also need to take into account block rotation of course. So, for example, a plate block placed with the face on the bottom or side, would be ok. But the same plate placed face up, would crumble to the ground.

I agree, JOST, that would definitely be a good upgrade and probably would not be too hard to implement.

I've seen it with the little white purses. I destroyed what was under them but the voxel block is still considered to be "attached" to something, usually a wall, so the purse in that block appears to float instead of falling to the ground like it should.

[Roxxapo]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

This. This 'inflexible' system is literally how voxels work. Minecraft is subject to the same limitations; Every game that utilizes voxels for it's world space is.

Imagine an electronic picture, and all it's pixels- Now imagine making each pixel 3d, and you have what we know as voxels.

Each voxel is, fundamentally, one pixel. Try parking your car in an occupied space- It doesn't work. You're asking to put a pixel inside a pixel. It just doesn't work that way.

You could increase the resolution- Get more pixels in the same space; But you'd still have individual pixels that can't intersect. But, the higher the resolution, the more taxing it becomes on the system.

You could create highly specialized shapes that incorporate several desirable features; But at the end of the day, it's..still just one 'pixel', one voxel; not two in the same space. And like increasing the resolution, the more you do this, the heavier the load on the system becomes- So just making every conceivable combination available isn't really an option.

Could do some other things too; But at the end of the day you're still looking at 1 voxel = 1 object. One space, One thing to fill the space. If the space is filled....it's filled.

Just out of curiosity, would it be possible to make an entity that acts as a pressure plate? What would be the performance impact if you had a bunch of entities with fixed points that essentially acted as blocks?

[RasaNova]

I want to say that I've seen or maybe just heard of a game that used voxels that could share a space, I think by basically clipping into each other. If I'm not just remembering things out of my butt, it may be theoretically possible for some voxels to mesh with certain types of other voxels, like mostly empty space voxels being able to be placed over solid block voxels.

Not likely to ever happen, but still an interesting thought.

[Midas]

Originally posted by RasaNova:

I want to say that I've seen or maybe just heard of a game that used voxels that could share a space, I think by basically clipping into each other. If I'm not just remembering things out of my butt, it may be theoretically possible for some voxels to mesh with certain types of other voxels, like mostly empty space voxels being able to be placed over solid block voxels.

Not likely to ever happen, but still an interesting thought.

Empyrion sorta does this by just having lots of different grids of voxels that can exist in the same playfield. Not sure how well it would work as a static element, though.

[...👑 JOST AMMAN 👑...]

Originally posted by RasaNova:

I want to say that I've seen or maybe just heard of a game that used voxels that could share a space, I think by basically clipping into each other. If I'm not just remembering things out of my butt, it may be theoretically possible for some voxels to mesh with certain types of other voxels, like mostly empty space voxels being able to be placed over solid block voxels.

Not likely to ever happen, but still an interesting thought.

Actually, many forget that this is what already happens with water, which in fact is, made of voxels!

[Crater Creator]

Originally posted by Macdallan:

Originally posted by ⚜ JOST AMMAN ⚜:

One improvement they could do, which IMO wouldn't be THAT costly, is to NOT allow some blocks to be placed on each other IF that means you'll have the infamous floating blocks.

That would also need to take into account block rotation of course. So, for example, a plate block placed with the face on the bottom or side, would be ok. But the same plate placed face up, would crumble to the ground.

I agree, JOST, that would definitely be a good upgrade and probably would not be too hard to implement.

I've seen it with the little white purses. I destroyed what was under them but the voxel block is still considered to be "attached" to something, usually a wall, so the purse in that block appears to float instead of falling to the ground like it should.

Yeah, that drives me nuts. I think it’s a bug.

Unless I’m forgetting something, a purse should only stick to an adjacent wall (instead of falling when you undermine it) if it has structural integrity numbers. Logically, a purse and other blocks like it should have no structural integrity, so that they can only stay up while there’s a block underneath them.

You could theoretically have cases where e.g. a backpack is hung on a nail on the wall. But it’s worth having a world where that conveniently never happens, for the sake of bags not floating in the air.

I would love to see blocks that can only support other blocks on certain sides, so for instance a plate shape can only support weight on one side. I would guess the performance impact would be something like 6x the structural integrity calculations, though (each of the six sides of the voxel can or can’t hold weight, depending on shape and rotation).

[Crater Creator]

Originally posted by Roxxapo:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

This. This 'inflexible' system is literally how voxels work. Minecraft is subject to the same limitations; Every game that utilizes voxels for it's world space is.

Imagine an electronic picture, and all it's pixels- Now imagine making each pixel 3d, and you have what we know as voxels.

Each voxel is, fundamentally, one pixel. Try parking your car in an occupied space- It doesn't work. You're asking to put a pixel inside a pixel. It just doesn't work that way.

You could increase the resolution- Get more pixels in the same space; But you'd still have individual pixels that can't intersect. But, the higher the resolution, the more taxing it becomes on the system.

You could create highly specialized shapes that incorporate several desirable features; But at the end of the day, it's..still just one 'pixel', one voxel; not two in the same space. And like increasing the resolution, the more you do this, the heavier the load on the system becomes- So just making every conceivable combination available isn't really an option.

Could do some other things too; But at the end of the day you're still looking at 1 voxel = 1 object. One space, One thing to fill the space. If the space is filled....it's filled.

Just out of curiosity, would it be possible to make an entity that acts as a pressure plate? What would be the performance impact if you had a bunch of entities with fixed points that essentially acted as blocks?

There are already pressure plates in the game (they’re blocks), so it’s not clear to me what you have in mind.