Sneak and higher tier POIs?

[Spaghettioz]

Doing wasteland missions now. I am okay with about 75% of the adds being ferals on Survivalist in this region (at least it seems so to me). But, every POI here seems set by trigger points now. T3 and lower, I have a lot of sneak success. But at T4, do I somehow get stuck with feral sense or some such?

Killing a lot of baddies wandering outside by sneak. So far not a single one inside yet. Light armor specialty so noise ought not to be an issue.

[Spaghettioz]

Oh and oddly, here and in winter biome, I am finding working vending machines again?

[Tin]

I said this in another post..

I got:

Compound Bow level 6, steel arrows.
Agility 10/10
Night Shadows 5/5
Silent Strike 5/5
Light Armor 5/5 (best quality)
Gunslinger 5/5 with a silencer
Archery 5/5
Stealth military boots with all my military armor at level 6
And all books related to Stealth (garbage noise, more damage at night etc etc)
And got all the NORMAL muffled connectors..

AND STILL HAVE NO chance to complete a POI mission without being detected because of an auto trigger that I THINK no matter you do, the zed's will wake up.

[Spaghettioz]

Ok yah I got quite good gear but not THAT good lol. Its a trigger point thing then.

Only thing saving me is I brought 500rds and go nuclear when the mobs all wake and charge lol. But I might not make it out of this one. Its daytime and going by the sounds outside I set off a horde and the POI is starting to come down omg.

[Dr.Chazzzzz]

I read a post by the devs that said they were working on the triggers having a % chance to wake zeds if you are sneaking. I thought it was already in game but cant remember or find post. One of the moderators mite help, one of them posted it in the first place when I saw it.

[Spaghettioz]

Ok. This actually feels like Feral Sense. They are spotting or hearing me probably 50m more away.

Yet in rare instances, I can sneak right up to them too. But most are waking the second i step in to a room.

[00 Critical]

Originally posted by Tin:

I said this in another post..

I got:

Compound Bow level 6, steel arrows.
Agility 10/10
Night Shadows 5/5
Silent Strike 5/5
Light Armor 5/5 (best quality)
Gunslinger 5/5 with a silencer
Archery 5/5
Stealth military boots with all my military armor at level 6
And all books related to Stealth (garbage noise, more damage at night etc etc)
And got all the NORMAL muffled connectors..

AND STILL HAVE NO chance to complete a POI mission without being detected because of an auto trigger that I THINK no matter you do, the zed's will wake up.

In my experience you are right .... but. When they wake up what do you do? If I have some space I backup or back around a corner and see if they are targeting me or running to the sound and searching that small area. Then I take aim and get sneak attacks in on a few then might get rushed by the last few.

[Spaghettioz]

Well to me, my recent run was in the fallen apartment building POI, the one thats broken in half. My god that was confusing lol.

Out of all my encounters, 90% of the zombies woke the second I stepped in to the room, and it seemed outside the building, I had a wandering horde hit the POI too. Zombies seemed to act in the wasteland as if Feral Sense is on all the time and that was a hairy fight all its own. I am grateful i came HEAVILY armed as they destryed a ton of the POI down below to get to me lol. That was pretty epic though.

But the end boss fight, I didnt set any of them off at all xD They just passively slept as I head critted them all, and naded the irradiated cop.

That was weird....I will write down to a bug.

[Crater Creator]

I sympathize with the devs on this. It’s a tricky thing to get right. I’ve made POIs and I’m not proud of it, but I’ve resorted to these guaranteed triggers where I felt it was unavoidable.

Why? Because I was having the opposite problem. In testing, it was too easy to walk right by a zombie encounter. If you didn’t know the POI, you wouldn’t even know there were zombies there if they stayed asleep.

The sleepers are so tightly controlled, so that they don’t wake up before you’ve gotten to them, that you can be making a ruckus at 100% stealth meter, and 90% of the time it doesn’t matter. And your mission in the higher tier POIs is always to clear the zombies. So it may suck that stealth isn’t effective… but it’s also no fun to skip a bunch of sleeper volumes, and have to backtrack, hunting for the ones you missed before you can leave.

I guess stealth and monster closets are kind of at odds, fundamentally. The level is designed to surprise you with enemies you didn’t see coming. Your stealth build is designed to surprise enemies that didn’t see you coming. Somebody’s got to make the first move, or it doesn’t work. And you can’t simply avoid the ambushes, since at higher tiers it’s always your mission to clear all the zombies. Typically in stealth games the enemies are walking along patrol routes, but we don’t have that, at least for now.

So yeah… maybe the designs are at odds with each other, and this can’t be resolved without changing the system.

[Spaghettioz]

Originally posted by Crater Creator:

I sympathize with the devs on this. It’s a tricky thing to get right. I’ve made POIs and I’m not proud of it, but I’ve resorted to these guaranteed triggers where I felt it was unavoidable.

Why? Because I was having the opposite problem. In testing, it was too easy to walk right by a zombie encounter. If you didn’t know the POI, you wouldn’t even know there were zombies there if they stayed asleep.

The sleepers are so tightly controlled, so that they don’t wake up before you’ve gotten to them, that you can be making a ruckus at 100% stealth meter, and 90% of the time it doesn’t matter. And your mission in the higher tier POIs is always to clear the zombies. So it may suck that stealth isn’t effective… but it’s also no fun to skip a bunch of sleeper volumes, and have to backtrack, hunting for the ones you missed before you can leave.

I guess stealth and monster closets are kind of at odds, fundamentally. The level is designed to surprise you with enemies you didn’t see coming. Your stealth build is designed to surprise enemies that didn’t see you coming. Somebody’s got to make the first move, or it doesn’t work. And you can’t simply avoid the ambushes, since at higher tiers it’s always your mission to clear all the zombies. Typically in stealth games the enemies are walking along patrol routes, but we don’t have that, at least for now.

So yeah… maybe the designs are at odds with each other, and this can’t be resolved without changing the system. :bummer:

I hear you. Given how combat is an integral part of getting experience and more, I certainly have no intention of skipping combat. Red dot locators are a big help this way. But one of my FAVORITE experiences in this game, aside from crafting a damned good base and getting great loot, is pwning a room full of zombies that didnt even know I was there. Assassination type of play I guess.

Still, yes ppl could use this to bypass a lot of intended combat or have trouble just finding stuff. The dot locators seem to only come on intermittently.

[Shas'O T'ros I'karra Mondruu]

I've been playing the new update for about 20-30h now and i'm getting increasingly frustrated with the auto-triggers. I can understand them to a degree, to make the game more intresting. The first time in a POI it's a real shocker and you have those "Oh ♥♥♥♥, I have a problem" moments. but at the 2nd, 3rd and so run of a POI it becomes frustrating; I know that there are zombies in the next room, and i can do ♥♥♥♥ about it, no matter how good my sneaking is, considering the massive abount of points you have to invest into playing an assassin-playstyle.

( 17 for base attribute 5 for sneaking itself and another 5 for sneak attack dmg. that's 27 points and that is not counting skills in looting, lockpicking and dmg in your weapon)

Now, I have a few ideas how to actually make these triggers fit in:
1. Movement sensors: they activate lights or an alarm that wakes every zombie in the room up, by disabeling the camera or with the perk from "the great heist" you can get around that one.
2. Tripwires: it would be perfectly realistic if other survivors planted the the typical tripwire that connects to a noisemakes, like cans on a string (think the noise-trap from the fallout games)
3. I already seen some stuff with keys, generators, buttons that open doors, I ABSOLUTLY LOVE THIS, combine it with the stealth gameplay so you can break in into a security-room first, disable the alarms, and the proceed.
also there a rly nice new models for the powerboxes, with some additions the the electrican skills you could shortwire/bypass these (maybe with a lil minigame?) to get around security measures.

I'd be fine with a simple skillcheck as well, just don't let them wake up for any reason, it just punishes players for playing stealth, and if i have a mission to clear zombies and i actually miss a few i just can start making sound on purpose.

[Dr.Chazzzzz]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/3196990234734352286/

[Spaghettioz]

Originally posted by KingDerekofDreamland:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/3196990234734352286/

Thanks King! That explains why they trigger at times but dont elsewhere.

[Crashtian]

Fun house style POI's on rails don't mix with stealth.

Might as well just give the player an air horn they can use at the entrance to the POI. then they won't miss any zombie encounters, because that would be the worst thing ever. People using stealth to avoid combat, that's not what stealth is for.

[Spaghettioz]

Well i use stealth to assassinate. But yeah I can see what you are saying. Stealth to the loot and scoot. Not cool.

[Johnny Thunder]

Originally posted by Crater Creator:

I sympathize with the devs on this. It’s a tricky thing to get right. I’ve made POIs and I’m not proud of it, but I’ve resorted to these guaranteed triggers where I felt it was unavoidable.

Why? Because I was having the opposite problem. In testing, it was too easy to walk right by a zombie encounter. If you didn’t know the POI, you wouldn’t even know there were zombies there if they stayed asleep.

The sleepers are so tightly controlled, so that they don’t wake up before you’ve gotten to them, that you can be making a ruckus at 100% stealth meter, and 90% of the time it doesn’t matter. And your mission in the higher tier POIs is always to clear the zombies. So it may suck that stealth isn’t effective… but it’s also no fun to skip a bunch of sleeper volumes, and have to backtrack, hunting for the ones you missed before you can leave.

I guess stealth and monster closets are kind of at odds, fundamentally. The level is designed to surprise you with enemies you didn’t see coming. Your stealth build is designed to surprise enemies that didn’t see you coming. Somebody’s got to make the first move, or it doesn’t work. And you can’t simply avoid the ambushes, since at higher tiers it’s always your mission to clear all the zombies. Typically in stealth games the enemies are walking along patrol routes, but we don’t have that, at least for now.

So yeah… maybe the designs are at odds with each other, and this can’t be resolved without changing the system. :bummer:

maybe give zombies more states than "asleep" and "eat your brains". Have them wake up and wander around but depending on sneak, noise/light at your position, cone of vision, etc. just wander around instead of autodetecting you.