Work stations

[Kauldric]

I wonder if it makes sense to consider how powerful workbenches are. While you can get away without a forge since you can harvest forged iron and steel from many sources, the workbench is a hard gate every single advanced recipe even the bike.

I really hate to have to be forced to put 4 points into INT just to get a workbench, or hope that a trader has one.

Maybe it’s worth considering two workbenches, as basic one and an advanced one. Or allow mods for the workbench similar to the forge. The simpler workbench could be craftable with less point investments but only allow certain select recipes (not higher tier weapons, for example).

Either that or make the workbench drop chance much higher, but IMO thst seems like a weak solution.

[FightinWelsh]

or you can search destroyed workbenches for the recipe? i get them all the time after day 2-3. not one point put into INT.

[Kauldric]

Yes I know that, since I have 1800+ hours on the game and have played since A13.

Due to RNG on the game that’s hit or miss. Ok some games it can drop instantly. On this game we searched the entire starter town, over 10 workbenches and nothing. Also nothing on the trader.

At this point I’m gonna just go to the creative menu and get the blueprint for it. When that sort of stuff happens then something is off in the game.

[Crater Creator]

What I did for ComSenMod (currently defunct) was add tools to the workbench. Instead of consuming a hammer and wrench to make the workbench, you added them (plus a wire tool) after you crafted the workbench, like adding a cooking pot to a campfire. Some recipes required one of these tools, while others required none. So adding tools was a way of upgrading your workbench to enable more recipes.

[Kauldric]

Originally posted by Crater Creator:

What I did for ComSenMod (currently defunct) was add tools to the workbench. Instead of consuming a hammer and wrench to make the workbench, you added them (plus a wire tool) after you crafted the workbench, like adding a cooking pot to a campfire. Some recipes required one of these tools, while others required none. So adding tools was a way of upgrading your workbench to enable more recipes.

Nice! That sounds cool

[Jinxed]

"I wonder if it makes sense to consider how powerful workbenches are."
"I really hate to have to be forced to put 4 points into INT just to get a workbench,"

Think of it this way, you are "forced" to put 4 points into INT BECAUSE it is powerful as you stated. Maybe that might make you feel better about having to spend those points.

[Kauldric]

I really hope this thread doesn’t descend into; the game is perfect and any change is inconceivable.

I’m just making the observation of how powerful and a gsme blocker the workbench is. TFp have consciously removed such blockers in the past. It’s not crazy to wonder if changes to workbench is on the plate at some point. It just seems like it hasn’t been tuned since forever ago, when the gsme was much rougher.

[Jinxed]

Do you think changes to the workbench would improve overall game experience? If so, what changes do you think those should be? Personally, I'm fine with how it is and I could also get behind changes if they enhance the experience and add more to the entire game mechanics, not just a function to make it harder to use.

[seven]

I would say it has been "tuned". They removed working workbenches you could find. Obviously they want the game to be a challenge. I would also say, lack of a workbench isn't as much of a challenge as you suggest. I've done playthroughs with no crafting, and it's not that hard.

[Kauldric]

Originally posted by Jinxed:

Do you think changes to the workbench would improve overall game experience? If so, what changes do you think those should be? Personally, I'm fine with how it is and I could also get behind changes if they enhance the experience and add more to the entire game mechanics, not just a function to make it harder to use.

Yes

If I’m making a Perception/Agility build I don’t want to put 6 points on INT to get a workbench.

[Jinxed]

Originally posted by Kauldric:

Originally posted by Jinxed:

Do you think changes to the workbench would improve overall game experience? If so, what changes do you think those should be? Personally, I'm fine with how it is and I could also get behind changes if they enhance the experience and add more to the entire game mechanics, not just a function to make it harder to use.

Yes

If I’m making a Perception/Agility build I don’t want to put 6 points on INT to get a workbench.

So it's not the workbench itself, but how it can or can not be obtained that you have a problem with?

I've never understood the draw to do Skill Tree based character builds. The skill point system isn't set up for that nor was it intended to be so. Of course doing so is entirely possible, as I've seen others do it. For the challenge of it I suppose? To play the game differently? To try something new?

So what exactly do you want done with the workbench to make progressing this Specialized Skill Tree based build more to your liking?

[Kauldric]

Originally posted by Jinxed:

Originally posted by Kauldric:

Yes

If I’m making a Perception/Agility build I don’t want to put 6 points on INT to get a workbench.

So it's not the workbench itself, but how it can or can not be obtained that you have a problem with?

I've never understood the draw to do Skill Tree based character builds. The skill point system isn't set up for that nor was it intended to be so. Of course doing so is entirely possible, as I've seen others do it. For the challenge of it I suppose? To play the game differently? To try something new?

So what exactly do you want done with the workbench to make progressing this Specialized Skill Tree based build more to your liking?

Just read the original post. That had the information.

[Uncle Al]

Originally posted by Kauldric:

Due to RNG on the game that’s hit or miss. Ok some games it can drop instantly. On this game we searched the entire starter town, over 10 workbenches and nothing. Also nothing on the trader.

I'm fairly certain the drop chance is a flat 5% per destroyed workbench, so searching 10 only gives you about a 40% chance of finding the recipe.

Once I've hit the point in the game I need a workbench, I tend to prioritise getting one over everything else. You can easily hit 20-30 workbenches in a day if that's your only priority. You only target locations that usually have one and move on to the next POI once you've found it. Hell, just going down a residential row of middle size houses and breaking straight into each garage can give you half a dozen chances in a couple of in game hours.

Sure sometimes RNG can be a ♥♥♥♥♥, searching 90 benches still only gives you a 99% chance of finding the schematic, but the more you search the better your odds are.

Traders are a good backup. Joel I believe is the best bet, but if you keep checking all your discovered traders every reset then you're bound to find one for sale eventually. It's really a question of whether one comes up for sale or you find the schematic first.

The tier 2 completion reward can offer a bench too, but it's not guaranteed. If you're running quests you're not prioritising finding benches, so I don't tend to go this route. Thinking about it, doing every trader up to tier 2 completion then moving to the next trader might work pretty well, especially as you can double dip quest POIs that are likely bench targets. Getting the 'Gearz' workshop as a quest target gives you four workbenches to search in about 5 minutes if you double dip it.

Certainly I've never found myself needing a bench 'right this minute' so badly I'd drop six points into INT for it.

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by Kauldric:

I wonder if it makes sense to consider how powerful workbenches are. While you can get away without a forge since you can harvest forged iron and steel from many sources, the workbench is a hard gate every single advanced recipe even the bike.

I really hate to have to be forced to put 4 points into INT just to get a workbench, or hope that a trader has one.

Maybe it’s worth considering two workbenches, as basic one and an advanced one. Or allow mods for the workbench similar to the forge. The simpler workbench could be craftable with less point investments but only allow certain select recipes (not higher tier weapons, for example).

Either that or make the workbench drop chance much higher, but IMO thst seems like a weak solution.

You're not forced to put points in INT though, or even rely on getting one from a trader. Although that is already 2 ways of getting it. You can skill up, buy the recipe, find the recipe, buy it outright, or get one as a mission tier reward. Or failing any of those, just buy/loot the things you want to make. I NEVER put points in engineering.

But that being said, I do like the idea of basic and advanced workshops, as well as the mod described above that functions like a campfire. (I'd also like to see an upgraded campfire, such as gas or electric stove, that unlocks the advanced recipes...)

[[MLU]Abearham Lincoln]

Can just get the points then reset them later with memory elixer

[Kauldric]

Originally posted by Uncle Al:

Originally posted by Kauldric:

Due to RNG on the game that’s hit or miss. Ok some games it can drop instantly. On this game we searched the entire starter town, over 10 workbenches and nothing. Also nothing on the trader.

I'm fairly certain the drop chance is a flat 5% per destroyed workbench, so searching 10 only gives you about a 40% chance of finding the recipe.

Once I've hit the point in the game I need a workbench, I tend to prioritise getting one over everything else. You can easily hit 20-30 workbenches in a day if that's your only priority. You only target locations that usually have one and move on to the next POI once you've found it. Hell, just going down a residential row of middle size houses and breaking straight into each garage can give you half a dozen chances in a couple of in game hours.

Sure sometimes RNG can be a ♥♥♥♥♥, searching 90 benches still only gives you a 99% chance of finding the schematic, but the more you search the better your odds are.

Traders are a good backup. Joel I believe is the best bet, but if you keep checking all your discovered traders every reset then you're bound to find one for sale eventually. It's really a question of whether one comes up for sale or you find the schematic first.

The tier 2 completion reward can offer a bench too, but it's not guaranteed. If you're running quests you're not prioritising finding benches, so I don't tend to go this route. Thinking about it, doing every trader up to tier 2 completion then moving to the next trader might work pretty well, especially as you can double dip quest POIs that are likely bench targets. Getting the 'Gearz' workshop as a quest target gives you four workbenches to search in about 5 minutes if you double dip it.

Certainly I've never found myself needing a bench 'right this minute' so badly I'd drop six points into INT for it.

Originally posted by Uncle Al:

Originally posted by Kauldric:

Due to RNG on the game that’s hit or miss. Ok some games it can drop instantly. On this game we searched the entire starter town, over 10 workbenches and nothing. Also nothing on the trader.

I'm fairly certain the drop chance is a flat 5% per destroyed workbench, so searching 10 only gives you about a 40% chance of finding the recipe.

Once I've hit the point in the game I need a workbench, I tend to prioritise getting one over everything else. You can easily hit 20-30 workbenches in a day if that's your only priority. You only target locations that usually have one and move on to the next POI once you've found it. Hell, just going down a residential row of middle size houses and breaking straight into each garage can give you half a dozen chances in a couple of in game hours.

Sure sometimes RNG can be a ♥♥♥♥♥, searching 90 benches still only gives you a 99% chance of finding the schematic, but the more you search the better your odds are.

Traders are a good backup. Joel I believe is the best bet, but if you keep checking all your discovered traders every reset then you're bound to find one for sale eventually. It's really a question of whether one comes up for sale or you find the schematic first.

The tier 2 completion reward can offer a bench too, but it's not guaranteed. If you're running quests you're not prioritising finding benches, so I don't tend to go this route. Thinking about it, doing every trader up to tier 2 completion then moving to the next trader might work pretty well, especially as you can double dip quest POIs that are likely bench targets. Getting the 'Gearz' workshop as a quest target gives you four workbenches to search in about 5 minutes if you double dip it.

Certainly I've never found myself needing a bench 'right this minute' so badly I'd drop six points into INT for it.

Yes, I am aware of being able to do this. Trust me, I have done literally every single thing that can be done in this game.

I *could* grind finding workbenches and that's fine. It's easier to open the creative menu and give myself a workbench, however.

My point is that the workbench is like this super powerful item that you need to advance in crafting anything and it's annoying having to waste time either grinding for it, getting super lucky, or wasting points in INT that messes up your build.

To balance the game better, probably TFP should consider making the workbench less powerful, then it's not that big of a deal if you have it or not. Then in the late game, the chances of having found the more 'advance' workbench that gives you everything is much more likely in a normal / non-forced way.