Is the bedrock layer even still necessary? Could more be added to the game if much of the depth was removed?

[MoistGamer]

Hello fellow scrubs that have played this game for far too long

A lot of talk about performance seems to come down to voxel game vs non voxel game. I get that concept and you should/can too if you read up on it. There are a few other games where you can dig out the ground etc where the performance isnt so rough with many mobs on the screen. I think the reason is those games have a ground layer that is only skin deep.

Digging really deep used to have some merit when there were caves. Is there any purpose to going to bedrock anymore? Even if there is a niche purpose, do you need it still? Could we get some performance back and add more roaming zombies if the ground stopped 20 down instead of hundreds? Maybe the ore nodes could puncture the new 'shorter floor' so people can still mine but what other purpose is there?

If all those "voxels" are holdiing it up, and performance is one shared pool (im not versed in this) maybe the vanilla experience can feel more threat-ridden and less of an idle... "what do i do now" sort of thing if we removed a lot of them.

- treasure is always only a few tiles deep anyway
-nodes could still puncutre the new floor so their space can still go deeper
-any other reason to go to bedrock? Is there a secret gnome that lives there?

Thoughts?

[Smetrix]

I don’t think reducing how far down you can go would have any impact, because when you’re digging a hole you’re actually rendering more terrain, not removing it from the game world. I also enjoy underground bunkers, so there’s a reason to go deeper than 20 tiles.

[George Droyd MK77]

i would rather have them add caves to the game. optimisation hasnt really happened yet and hardware is allways improving so im confident they will be able to do that with good performance.

allso there are some pois with really deep underground bunkers like the rocket silo not sure if they go down to 100 but they definetly go deeper then 20

[Crater Creator]

Originally posted by MoistGamer:

Is there a secret gnome that lives there?

*looks at my name and avatar*
…Yes, and I shall play you the song of my people.

Really, it’s too late to abandon voxels, in whole or in part. My sense is they’ll do that for their next game.

The way a non-voxel game performs better is by baking in things like light maps, collision physics, and AI paths, taking advantage of a world that, for the most part, doesn’t change shape at unpredictable times or places. So the savings wouldn’t come automatically just from cutting down on the number of voxels. The game’s already smart enough with occlusion and structural integrity and whatnot to not do more calculations on that huge mass of voxels under your feet than it actually needs to do.

Many find bedrock useful for its properties as a flat layer that can’t be destroyed. They don’t feel truly ‘safe’ from potential base damage unless the Blood Moon zombies are walking on bedrock, that’s impervious to any number of demolishers, explosives, etc.

I’ve thought digging all the way down to bedrock is more trouble than it’s worth. I’ve only done it to make absolutely sure my most important pillars are solid for SI purposes. However, my ultimate A19 base did rely on a deep pit, so that all incoming zombies would take fall damage. There’s really no substitute for sheer fall height with that design. Now, I always end up making new base designs, so this wasn’t my only path to success on horde night. But I’m sure others rely on a depth of blocks to do their own thing. Keep in mind by reducing the depth of the bedrock, you’re taking lots of sand out of the sandbox, figuratively but also literally. Also, if you reduced it too much, POIs with deep underground caves/sewers/bunkers/whatever would have nowhere to spawn.

[Amanoob105]

I'd say it mostly just comes down to freedom of choice.
Some people want to build their homes at the top of the tallest mountain, other on a large area of flat land with plenty of room and some still so far down light becomes but memory.
In turn.
Some try to get all they need from looting, some from working with the traders and others go for a mining run where you try to get all you need from below.
Though I suspect most people, like myself, go for a mix of any of the above options between any number of games.

Taking it away in turn takes away a good chunk of the freedom people have when it comes to how they could go about playing this game.

To be honest I doubt the option will be going away any time soon, or ever, simply because this game is (among a few other things) both a survival and crafting sandbox. There's not a lot of point in it being any of that if it goes out of its way like that to limit your options of surviving and crafting how you might want to in said sandbox if there isn't need to.

[...👑 JOST AMMAN 👑...]

The real problem is the SI calculations. AFAIK most other voxel games (name me one?) don't use "gravity" and structural integrity on deformable terrain.

In Space Engineers, Minecraft, Empyrion: Galactic Survival and so on... you'll never get a cave-in because there's not calculations for the terrain. Much easier IMO.

[Mardoin69]

Originally posted by ⚜ JOST AMMAN ⚜:

The real problem is the SI calculations. AFAIK most other voxel games (name me one?) don't use "gravity" and structural integrity on deformable terrain.

In Space Engineers, Minecraft, Empyrion: Galactic Survival and so on... you'll never get a cave-in because there's not calculations for the terrain. Much easier IMO.

THIS^^,,,,,, It's the SI calculation's that are eating performance a bit. But, like said already....those calc's. aren't done on 'undisturbed' ground so, it's only the places you start messing with that get added into the calc's. POI's are calculated at beginning of loading.

Even "Rising World" doesn't use SI and it's a Voxel game too. So, it's performance is slightly better....although it's still in EA status I believe so, optimization isn't finished for it either yet.

For the 'digging down to bedrock' concern........personally, I never do that. I just dig down till I hit a good layer of rock with no resources in it. So, if I dig down and keep hitting coal, lead, iron, etc.... I'll either consider moving over a bit for my pillar or (if it's crucial to use that spot) just keep going till I hit just rock. But, I don't do deep kill pits either so....seriously doubt ANYTHING is going to get down under my base. If they're going to destroy pillars, it'll be inside my base.....not under. My only concern for digging down for the support pillars is that you run into issues sometimes if that spot is sand. Like I have a mining pit under my base (not to exceed the size of my base so that my supports are always part of the terrain wall around the edges but, if they're on top of sand....it might cause problem because sand has next to no horizontal support value....if any.

[Khissi]

Leave my bedrock alone! You're welcome to your opinion and very welcome to play as if it doesn't exist, but I use it in many ways, not least of which is for stability, hiding from screamers while I dig to my little heart's content, or just goofing off making tunnels because I can.

Go play..

[OH! MY CAR]

Originally posted by MoistGamer:

Thoughts?

Yes, Madmole has talked about this before.

It is basically too late for this game and would not help any at this point.

The next game, that they are working on currently, will probably have less digging and a more rust like building system that basically does the same thing. It is being made on unreal engine.

[Crashtian]

Originally posted by .♥~*°("_")°*~♥.:

Yes it do ! Because me & other people like to build bunker so only 20 blocks for underground will be not enought at all !

But I think the problem it's not the ground but mostly the sky... There's player who will do but most of us will never build a tower to the limit of the sky (something like 255 max but I think it's a little less since +/-a17).

& yes, air is a block too... But anyway, that will change nothing about performance except maybe in single... Because example with a 8k map, the game need to manage nearly 8000x8000x256 blocks, so if less ground, that will be always to manage nearly 8000x8000x200 blocks...

He is on to something.

Remove the air.

[Mardoin69]

But, then we'll suffocate! lol

[MoistGamer]

Thank you all for the replies, I dont feel I need much in the way of sway in terms of how useful the underground layers are aside from ore. They just arent. And to be clear I'm talking about the half-mile of dirt the topsoil sits on. Not the underground POIs, not the ore veins. There seems to be so much wasted space taken up by dirt nobody will ever see or touch (again, aside from creativity)

My thought was if we removed the hundreds of thousands(millions?) of... whatever... voxels? that make up alllll the sub terrain in the world, maybe we could free up some resources. It appears this is not the case as others have pointed out MadMole saying, and thats okay.

As to the bunker comments I'm not sure what that does for you aside from creativity freedom.

Thanks again and have a good weekend

[MoistGamer]

Originally posted by Khissi:

Leave my bedrock alone! You're welcome to your opinion and very welcome to play as if it doesn't exist, but I use it in many ways, not least of which is for stability, hiding from screamers while I dig to my little heart's content, or just goofing off making tunnels because I can.

Go play..

Hide from screamers? Don't you have an autoturret outside of your base door by day 14 -21 (depending on pace, desire, XP % ) anyway? What game are you playing where you are hiding from screamers . Screamers are a non issue that needs to be made more aggressive or the scream trigger less preventable.

I also feel I misspoke, I mean bedrock needs to exist, the map needs to end somewhere on the bottom. It just doesnt need to be 2 miles down (was my thought)

[pApA^LeGBa]

Originally posted by Richard:

i would rather have them add caves to the game. optimisation hasnt really happened yet and hardware is allways improving so im confident they will be able to do that with good performance.

Not gonna happen. That want the game to run on a potato. No way they implent something that is stressing the hardware.

That´s why we have to deal with nearly no zombies outside of POI´s. Even tough a 180$ CPU can handle way more zombies than the game gives us now.