The point of the new Tactical Assault Rifle & Sniper Rifle?

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Prisoner 76561197992841073 possui 7 Days to Die

4/ago./2020 às 8:58

The point of the new Tactical Assault Rifle & Sniper Rifle?

The Sniper Rifle feels like a re-skin of the Marksman Rifle, I was expecting something like a military grade bolt action sniper rifle. It doesn't seem to be overall better or worse than the Marksman Rifle.

The Tactical Assault Rifle... well, that's just a reskin of the AK with minor stat adjustments isn't it?

I'm all for new content like new weapons, but I think they should be a bit more differentiated.

Última edição por Prisoner 76561197992841073; 4/ago./2020 às 8:59

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Exibindo comentários 16–30 de 33

Crater Creator

6/ago./2020 às 3:08

The behavior and stats on the guns & ammo should be dictated by fun gameplay. Borrowing from real life is just one tool for achieving fun gameplay. They need a T1 rifle, T2 rifle, and T3 rifle, with each being better than the last; and they need to have a limited number of ammunition types, because a cluttered inventory isn't fun. Those should be the grounding principles, rather than being limited to real world models and ballistics.

The rifles can all take 10.35x76mm Huenink rounds that nobody's ever heard of, if sound gameplay principles are upheld. Being an accurate gun simulator isn't important. So the OP is right to focus instead on whether the weapons are differentiated, as is Midloth with the point about having to scale down what 'long range' versus 'short range' means when your draw distance is way lower than real rifle ranges.

Última edição por Crater Creator; 6/ago./2020 às 3:13

#16

CoinSpin

6/ago./2020 às 7:10

I totally agree. While ammo types would typically be quite varied in a real life situation, for the sake of gameplay and reduction of grinding (and considering we have very limited personal inventory space) it makes sense to keep the ammo types simplified and create commonality between some related weapon types.

To me, a sniper rifle should have a longer barrel and be heavier for stability. And it should have a definite accuracy bonus when aiming through sights or scope, and a serious accuracy penalty when shooting from the hip. The whole getting more damage with the same ammo is a gameplay mechanic to provide some extra bonus for using this weapon, to help offset the fact that it handles terribly for anything but precision distance shooting.

But it also does have some basis in factual weapon mechanics - a longer barrel for a sniper rifle is by design to allow the bullet longer time in the barrel to build up more speed and have longer to experience the internal rifling of the barrel. The result is a bullet that exits the barrel at higher velocity with a tighter spin that keeps it from tumbling less in the air. Faster bullet can easily be correlated to higher damage.

#17

Prisoner 76561197992841073 possui 7 Days to Die

6/ago./2020 às 7:16

Agree with the above two posts as well.

As far as I can see, when it comes to ammo there are 3 options:

1. Keep it as it is (no new ammo types)
2. Create broad categories for ammo types, e.g. named - Pistol ammo, Rifle ammo, Shotgun ammo (or, alternatively, low-calibre, medium-calibre, high-calibre, shotgun)
3. Literally create different ammo types specifically for each gun that would use a different calibre

I wouldn't like 3 for the reason CoinSpin gives, it's too much to manage - your ammo box would be full of all kinds of different ammo and it would be a pain.

1 works for now with the small number of weapons we have, but they might go for 2 if they add many new guns and whatnot just for variety.

#18

IRuleAll

6/ago./2020 às 7:30

Escrito originalmente por CoinSpin:
Escrito originalmente por IRuleAll:
i dont like the sniper rifle at all. way too much recoil, way too much smoke, and not nearly as useful as the marksman rifle. at least with the marksman rifle i can walk into a room, and sneak attack a zombie or two before the rest come charging at me. with very little muzzle flash, smoke and recoil, it is very easy to stay on your targets to fire multiple rounds of 7.62 in a more confined space like a warehouse store room that may have 6 to 10 zombies in it. the sniper rifle makes so much smoke and recoil, you waste precious time refocusing back to the next target. plus its stupidly huge and cumbersome looking and blocks way too much view with the scope.

So, in general, it's like an actual sniper rifle. Those babies are not made for close combat at all. If you want to reach out and touch someone from a mile away, you can't do better. If you are moving through a house trying to clear enemies, it would never be a choice for the proper weapon to be relying on.

yes but thats not how this game plays. you can't use the optimal range of a gun like that in a game like this. so we are left with a gun that is supposed to be an "upgrade" to the mid tier version, the marksman rifle, but in the end, its giant bulk and cumbersome nature makes it play like a downgrade to me in most cases. maybe if ammo was actually an issue in this game, the sniper rifle would be nice. but as it is, getting ammo is extremely easy, so its one main benefit of having much higher fire power which consumes less ammo, is pretty much irrelevant.

#19

CoinSpin

6/ago./2020 às 7:42

Simplification is great, but I honestly wouldn't mind a .50 cal bullet option for a high tier sniper rifle and machine gun variant like an M2 or M85, eventually. If we ever ended up with vehicle mounted weaponry, that is. Or the option to set up a manual turret with those big bad boys. Those weapons are not really a "hold and fire" type of weaponry, but could make for an effective later game defensive addition to use against incoming heavy armor baddies.

#20

CoinSpin

6/ago./2020 às 7:52

Escrito originalmente por IRuleAll:
Escrito originalmente por CoinSpin:

So, in general, it's like an actual sniper rifle. Those babies are not made for close combat at all. If you want to reach out and touch someone from a mile away, you can't do better. If you are moving through a house trying to clear enemies, it would never be a choice for the proper weapon to be relying on.

yes but thats not how this game plays. you can't use the optimal range of a gun like that in a game like this. so we are left with a gun that is supposed to be an "upgrade" to the mid tier version, the marksman rifle, but in the end, its giant bulk and cumbersome nature makes it play like a downgrade to me in most cases. maybe if ammo was actually an issue in this game, the sniper rifle would be nice. but as it is, getting ammo is extremely easy, so its one main benefit of having much higher fire power which consumes less ammo, is pretty much irrelevant.

Agreed, and I totally get why this thread came about. Game draw distance limitations do make utilizing a sniper rifle properly fairly impossible currently. I was just pointing out that it behaves the way you'd expect a sniper rifle to behave, with the awkwardness you would expect. Whether they can find a way to make it more effective in the long term will be interesting to see. At the very least, I would expect to see some way to provide serious bonuses to using the sniper to offset the limitations. Maybe a virtually guaranteed dismember when hitting a limb, inherent penetration bonus regardless of if you have that perk, etc. I do feel like some balance needs to apply to make the sniper worth it over the long haul.

I'm almost always a ranged/sniper role in games, and I typically pass over the sniper rifle in this game. In previous game builds, my weapon of choice has traditionally been something like the AK with scope and burst mod. A 3 shot burst from that weapon configuration always seems to exceed a single sniper shot, you just are paying for it with extra ammo expenditure. So in the current iteration, the marksman tends to be my preference over the sniper - the bang for the buck vs drawbacks just hasn't sold me on it yet.

#21

IRuleAll

6/ago./2020 às 8:24

i mean all they really need to do is increase its handling and smoke. because when you play on nightmare speed, that huge recoil takes maybe 0.25+ seconds before you can get ready to shoot again, unless your shooting from the hip, and by that time, the other zombies have already closed the gap too quickly in a lot of cases. its the one reason i like the marksman rifle more. i can go into a PoI that would be in a tier 4 or 5 quest, and its much easier to enter a large room, get one sneak attack headshot, but then continue to use the marksman rifle as they come running in, since it has so much less recoil, and almost no smoke. maybe it doesnt matter so much if you dont play on nightmare speed, but i prefer fast zombies when i play.

#22

CoinSpin

6/ago./2020 às 9:13

Escrito originalmente por IRuleAll:
i mean all they really need to do is increase its handling and smoke. because when you play on nightmare speed, that huge recoil takes maybe 0.25+ seconds before you can get ready to shoot again, unless your shooting from the hip, and by that time, the other zombies have already closed the gap too quickly in a lot of cases. its the one reason i like the marksman rifle more. i can go into a PoI that would be in a tier 4 or 5 quest, and its much easier to enter a large room, get one sneak attack headshot, but then continue to use the marksman rifle as they come running in, since it has so much less recoil, and almost no smoke. maybe it doesnt matter so much if you dont play on nightmare speed, but i prefer fast zombies when i play.

And that is why the marksman is my flavor of choice for general gun (along with silenced pistol and often crossbow). The sniper rifle behaves like it should, it's just not built for any kind of close quarters combat. Long distance precision lead delivery is what it's supposed to be used for, so it kind of doesn't really have a good role to fill in the current game setup. Maybe we'll get longer draw distances or some other benefits that match up to the sniper's particular operational advantages as the game gets optimized down the road? Hard to know for certain.

Until then, the sniper rifle is an odd man out when looking at the weapons. Changing handling and smoke would just basically make it another marksman rifle, so there's really no point in it being a separate weapon, I think. Unless there are some plans in motion that will make the sniper rifle (as it has been designed) an appealing choice for particular scenarios.

#23

OmgDaNinja possui 7 Days to Die

6/ago./2020 às 9:32

Escrito originalmente por Seftak:
Escrito originalmente por Judestorm:
dude wat? if one ammo has a different calibre to the other ammo, it's not the same
Yeah that's the whole point here. Two rifle using the very same ammo will have the same power. They should have another caliber for this other sniper rifle. And something that exists, 7.62 isn't a caliber...

7.62 is caliber. And the .308 what you were waving gloriously in earlier post is 7.62x51mm with thinner case (more room for powder).

Key difference here is what comes after the 7.62.
Ak uses 7.62x39mm
New sniper uses 7.62x54mm

More length -> more powder -> heavier bullet = more power

Also muzzle brake does not slow the bullet or affect muzzle velocity at all.

Barrel stays same length with muzzle brake but if we were to cut muzzle brake length from the barrel lets say 600mm barrel and we cut 40mm to add muzzle brake so complete length stays 600mm, we are left with 560mm barrel. Now it would work as you describe it as in lower muzzle velocity.

#24

mr4thdimension possui 7 Days to Die

29/nov./2020 às 13:06

Escrito originalmente por OmgDaNinja:
Escrito originalmente por Seftak:
Yeah that's the whole point here. Two rifle using the very same ammo will have the same power. They should have another caliber for this other sniper rifle. And something that exists, 7.62 isn't a caliber...

7.62 is caliber. And the .308 what you were waving gloriously in earlier post is 7.62x51mm with thinner case (more room for powder).

Key difference here is what comes after the 7.62.
Ak uses 7.62x39mm
New sniper uses 7.62x54mm

More length -> more powder -> heavier bullet = more power

Also muzzle brake does not slow the bullet or affect muzzle velocity at all.

Barrel stays same length with muzzle brake but if we were to cut muzzle brake length from the barrel lets say 600mm barrel and we cut 40mm to add muzzle brake so complete length stays 600mm, we are left with 560mm barrel. Now it would work as you describe it as in lower muzzle velocity.

Everything this guys says +1.....

#25