Shotgun vs. AK?

[HunterAlpha1]

So I'm trying to decide whether to initially go sniper and AK, or sniper and shotgun. It's a PvP server but with a low-ish population and relatively low loot abundance with backpack drop only and Survivalist difficulty.
My own playstyle it to avoid conflict with players and only take a shot if I know I'll win, and only if I have a clear avenue of escape in case things go sideways. I may occasionally raid if it doesn't seem like the owner around. Basically, I'm an opportunist.

For the shotgun there's ammo versatility, default ammo made with the more common paper instead of brass, and bomb @$$ stopping power at close range. It suffers from low magazine capacity and less stopping power at range.

The AK has much better medium range accuracy and damage, higher mag capacity, and if fitted with a scope and semi-auto trigger group can even serve as a medium range sniper rifle. It shares ammo with the sniper, which is both a huge plus and a huge negative, because if used on full auto it's a thirsty bioche, but since both use the same ammo you only need to haul around and craft one type.

One question I have about the AK is, if you put a semi-auto trigger group on it, does the game still treat it like an automatic weapon for the purpose of perks, bonuses, etc., or is it treated like a rifle?

[CoinSpin]

Personally, if those were my intended pairings, I'd go with the AK. Or even SMG, if I was willing to be a little flexible. Constant reloading of the shotgun, and how close you need to be for real hardcore stopping power, usually make the decision for me. I'm more of an "I'll just stand way over here and make you die (again)" kind of guy. I don't want to smell their breath as I'm trying to re-kill them with lead poisoning, ya know? Plus, you can add a silencer to the AK and SMG, which is handy for not waking up the whole neighborhood constantly. That said, I always have a blunderbuss or shotgun handy as my fallback 3rd weapon. Nothing beats a wall of buckshot to cover a hasty retreat from a surprise small group of peckish zombies sprinting at you.

It's going to boil down to ammo, usually. The AK and sniper rifle both use the same ammo, which saves some precious backpack inventory real estate. But it also means you'll be chewing through that ammo 2-3 times faster, so you can starve yourself of lead to throw. With the SMG you have alternate ammo, so less likely to run out of ammo too quickly. Shotgun can be an easier ammo to make often times, particularly if your loot rate and loot respawns are set low.

My typical loadout from early on is a bow and a rifle (shotgun or blundy as backup). I work up the quality ladder, and later in game I'm still usually rocking a high end compound bow, and I either stick with rifles and use a marksman, or I switch it up and go AK with scope for those times I want to reach out and touch someone long distance.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure the AK still gets the machine gun perks, even with the semi-auto mod. Seems weird, maybe they'll change that in the future?

[Atrushan]

Not much to add to that. As stated above, the AK saves you inventory slots, is silent, good for crowd control (due to high ammo capacity) and can be silent. If you want to go with a shotgun, I'd recommend the one with 7 magazine size ("combat" shotgun? I keep forgetting the name), because it makes missing less tragic. For even a shotgun can miss at point blank if things get hasty and intimate. At least when you have a spread tightener installed.

[Logical Maneuver]

It all depends (to me at least) on what you are fighting. Players, you want range so go with the AK. Zombies? Well, they walk right up to you, and will only cost you 1 shot. In PvE I go with Shotguns, in PvP I go with SMGs and AK's. No one can make this decision for you, and from what I have read, you already have made it, you just want to talk about it I guess?

AK/Rifle (Commando/Marksman) have their own perk trees, and remain in those trees regardless of mods because basic item class ID's don't over think things like people do.

[HunterAlpha1]

Yeah you're right, I was leaning mostly AK, I'd forgotten about the SMG so I guess that pretty much settles it.

Thanks for the answers guys.

[HunterAlpha1]

speaking of SMGs, what skill does crafting for it fall under?

[Atrushan]

Should be "Machine Gunner" in the Fortitude tree.
By the way, the one I meant was the Pump Shotgun. Surprisingly enough, it can be equipped with a silencer. A silent shotgun? Go figure :)

[Tyv014]

smg is under the pistol skills and pistol crafting tree

[Crater Creator]

I, too, am pretty sure you can’t change the class of a weapon with a semi-auto trigger group mod, or any other mod.

[Jenkins]

I did some testing. Read all this if you want. Hope the devs don't.


tl;dr Sniper and AK have lost their crown, imo. Here's why.


I used to play exclusively sniper for the one hit ability. It's long reload an fire time were justifiable because it was a dependable single shot down. It's not reliable for that in A18.

For a while, I've used the AK because it had almost the same damage as sniper with a big clip. It suffers now from the same relative single shot damage loss. However, it really can pull some nice work in emergencies and pile damage on a single or group targets. I still break big things with it, especially if I have it early game. Horde extra weapon. It also eats enough brass as to require planning your game to grind brass if you use it primary; the current best source of brass for this hog is dukes, imo.

Sadly, I excluded the magnum. Clip 6 and long reload doesn't work. It has a single stop, unlike the sniper, with high relative base damage but the low fire rate, long reload, and absent clip undo that.

Instead, after testing, I use pistol and shotgun now.

Pistol surprised me. The dps on pistol is very nearly the same dps as the other two while having the best clip (base of 11k vs 12 and 17, does not include clip and reload). You have control over it's clip relative to the AK but can still unload in an emergency. Further, the longer clip and quick fire and reload times really add to the base dps compared to the slower guns.

The shotgun has the best damage in the game atm and the only single stop besides the magnum, but also has a relatively fast reload, AE dmg, and can be outfitted to carry 11 rounds. This works if you can accept the lower range.

I almost stuck with AK and it can be as effective but only if you find and pour brass (dukes) into things. You don't need to.



When I tested, I looked at the base dps calculated from damage x shots/minute. I then tested each weapon in open field run fights vs. groups of 25 feral or radiated zombies, including bikers for armor tests. I also tested these vs gamestage 75+ blood moons. The base damage doesn't reveal the effect of having to reload after 8 and 6 shots for sniper and while the magnum is the only sure stopper of the two, 6 clip and long reload drags its overall dps down.

Pistol and Shotgun had two other nice features. During those tests, I could control the fight so as to not get hit since stopping power, unlike the other weapons where I had to plan getting hit; AK was the only other weapon that could do this. Second, they both had the lowest cost of ammo; AK is the god of ammo consumption. The shotgun actually tended to reduce a 25 horde in just over 25 rounds and a pistol in about 50. The shotguns damage was also effective enough that I could forgo the ap slugs or mix them in.

I use barrel extenders on all my weapons and will transition from pistol to shotgun on survival once I have a sawed off pump. I found the sawed off slightly better than the duck for running hordes but like the duck for shamblers. Shotgun has some nice AE which works great with penetration and cripple mods. Pistol has decent range and other benefits.

Good luck, survivor.

[CellNav]

Originally posted by Jenkins:

tl;dr Sniper and AK have lost their crown, imo. Here's why.

Maybe ... maybe not.

When I look at the rifle or AK, I don't consider damage, I consider it's usage. Both weapons can have a scope and be silenced. Audible range (for the player) is 100 meters. Visual range of entities without aid (no scope) is about 80 meters or so, with a scope it's further.

Basically (in a PvP scenario), a 2x scope on an a silenced Tactical-AR at 90 meters (or a rifle at over 100 meters) would be my choice despite any damage drop off because my opponent would be saying "whiskey-tango-foxtrot" for about 2 seconds before seeing a red screen ... :P

Shotgun for me is ... "just rounded the corner of a building" weapon, boom boom.

Carry all the weapons and use them accordingly, IMO.
Like Chuck Yeager said, "It's the man, not the machine".

[Jenkins]

Basically, agree CellNav on PVP.

PVP, I'd Sniper, AK, depending range.

Because in PVP, who cares ammo, and mostly single target encounters. PVP server, those two with a shotty for the zombies.

I'd still try the pistol though. It's fast and lasts.