Leopard 1 Unplayable?

[Nemotherl]

The leopard 1 wasnt the best vvehicle even before it went up to 8.0, but now its absolutely unplayable no apfsds no stabilizer. especially because of the soviet equivallents such as the t55 and its variants wich have: better armor, better amunition, better survivability, and stabilization.

[OkemaN]

Go around your enemies lmao leo 1 is really agile

[Mirage]

Publicado originalmente por OkemλN:

Go around your enemies lmao leo 1 is really agile

Not really compared to what it fights.

[Shyue Chou]

The glorious days when the Leopard 1 was 7.3. In those days, when most players who were playing Germany would play their Tiger IIs, you find the Leopard 1 rather alone, a 7.3 tank surrounded by hordes of 6.7 Tiger II(H)s. It was relatively easy to rack up kills with the Leopard 1 back then, I imagine not so today.

[Ranold Arzenschwegger🕹]

Leopard 1 to leopart 1A5 and the Premium with the L44 are my favorite opponents. The tanks take absolutely nothing and are pure glass cannons. The tanks were designed for delayed combat and are not classic breakthrough tanks. However, since the map design is clearly designed to drive towards the enemy at full throttle, these tanks are almost unplayable on most maps (the maps are much too small and winding). Leopards are pure snipers. And yes, the combat classifications of all leopard tanks are very unfair because of the many close range maps. In most cases, I recommend leaving the battle immediately. The Germans are generally no longer worthwhile in Warthunder. Almost all nations are now better equipped. Especially in WW2 battles, almost all nations have tanks from the cold war. Only Germany has to deal with completely outdated material. Because you are easy fodder for the opponents. And if you're looking forward to the Leopard 2 tanks, the leopard 2A4 has the worst ammunition on the animal. The hull on all Leopard 2 tanks is also very poorly armored. It is also enough for a projectile to graze your tank and your cannon will immediately fail. Really, with every hit, your cannon is no longer operational. Personally, I prefer to play other nations. At least you're not so frustrated all the time. When you play against the Germans, it's easy to make one kill after the other.

[OkemaN]

Publicado originalmente por Mirage:

Publicado originalmente por OkemλN:

Go around your enemies lmao leo 1 is really agile

Not really compared to what it fights.

Uh huh yea Leopard 1 is definitely slower than T-54, M60, Centurion and everything else it's literally the slowest medium tank in that BR my bad bro

[Kunic]

I never really liked the Leopard all that well... was just thinking where to put dardo in my italian lineup once unlocked and probably leo is getting the boot

[Sobolewski]

Germany players before getting LeKpz M41, JpZ 4-5, Leopard 1, Spz BMP-1, Marder, etc :
"MOBILITY IS SO BROKEN, THE M18 HELLCAT DESERVES TO BE AT 6.7 !1!1!1!1!1!1
CHEAT-FS POST WAR TANK SHOULD BE 8.0+ NO MATTER HOW ♥♥♥♥ IT IS IN EVERY OTHER REGARD"

Germany players after getting said tanks :
"You see being fast as ♥♥♥♥ with the ability to penetrate everything you see for mediocre to bad post-penetration damage is actually quite underpowered and we should be allowed to play with these vehicles at a BR range 1.0 lower than any other nation gets to as compensation for "suffering" in the heavy vehicles before."

Questionable if they're even human at this point.

[Kogoro]

Publicado originalmente por Ranold Arzenschwegger🕹:

Leopard 1 to leopart 1A5 and the Premium with the L44 are my favorite opponents. The tanks take absolutely nothing and are pure glass cannons. The tanks were designed for delayed combat and are not classic breakthrough tanks. However, since the map design is clearly designed to drive towards the enemy at full throttle, these tanks are almost unplayable on most maps (the maps are much too small and winding). Leopards are pure snipers. And yes, the combat classifications of all leopard tanks are very unfair because of the many close range maps. In most cases, I recommend leaving the battle immediately. The Germans are generally no longer worthwhile in Warthunder. Almost all nations are now better equipped. Especially in WW2 battles, almost all nations have tanks from the cold war. Only Germany has to deal with completely outdated material. Because you are easy fodder for the opponents. And if you're looking forward to the Leopard 2 tanks, the leopard 2A4 has the worst ammunition on the animal. The hull on all Leopard 2 tanks is also very poorly armored. It is also enough for a projectile to graze your tank and your cannon will immediately fail. Really, with every hit, your cannon is no longer operational. Personally, I prefer to play other nations. At least you're not so frustrated all the time. When you play against the Germans, it's easy to make one kill after the other.

I have the L44 Leo 1 and I think it's a blast, I got some high ground in a recent match and used it's depression to get plenty of kills. There are more than most people can be bothered to count vehicles that have no armor and a good gun which are fantastic.

I think I am quite a good player in this game and that's not due to quick reflexes or camping low tier killing new players, I have learned all the maps in the game, I know the best places for me to go, I know the layouts of tanks as most of them are obvious because how else do you design a fighting vehicle i.e where crew and ammo is.

I think any vehicle can be good and effective to just dismiss them as bad sounds like skill issue.

[Rye]

Just play russia, they dont have problems at any point :)

[ArrowViper]

Publicado originalmente por Nemotherl:

The leopard 1 wasnt the best vvehicle even before it went up to 8.0, but now its absolutely unplayable no apfsds no stabilizer. especially because of the soviet equivallents such as the t55 and its variants wich have: better armor, better amunition, better survivability, and stabilization.

Don't be a clown...it's still good. It doesn't need armor or survivability...it has a rangefinder and mobility higher than anything other than wheeled vehicles. It's still a good tank. You have a skill issue...try playing T-55 with it's average mobility and average armor...and the APFSDS is just trash, it shatters, bounces or just doesn't pen some stuff...

[Your Neko Hentai Waifu §NYA§]

yeah the leopard 1 suffers A LOT but you can stll do kills, you need to play it like a little ♥♥♥♥♥ sniping from hills and staying hidden until the eventual cas or helicopter takes you out.

8.0+ needs decompression

[Weltreisender]

It’s my favorite tank to play…

[Mark]

All that can be done is to flank.
Then advance up to the next tanks.

[Mirage]

Publicado originalmente por Kogoro:

L44 is also just a vastly superior vehicle compared the Leo 1.

[FizzyElf]

Publicado originalmente por Mirage:

Publicado originalmente por Bombelos:

But clubbing on 7.3 (especially in downtiers) was good, right?
It should never go lower than 7.7... now enjoy it on 8.0.

It never clubbed anything, at any time, at any BR.

Correct, though I would argue that at 8.0 it is doing far better now than it did before, less crew in enemy tanks, less APHE, lower chances of downtiering into hell like it did at 7.3 and an easier grinding experience overall. That said the leopard is awful, no matter where you put it the tank will have issues like with the new can of worms gaijin opened by adding the 40mm leo at 5.0, it down tiers and it's in KV hell, it uptiers and it's fighting lots of heavily armored tanks, they move it up in BR and it will start creeping into the same hole the leo 1 used to occupy though now coming up rather than downtiering into it. If they reduce the pen then it will flank harder and the rush players will stop driving it which will drive up it's stats, nerf the belts to AP/AP/HE/AP for its top belt and you won't affect it enough to matter. There is nothing you can do with it because killing it isn't an issue and the pen is decent but nothing amazing, give it better belts and move it up and it will preform almost identical to now which means you have only kicked the can down the road a little. It was similar for the leo 1, it had enough pen and mobility but was still incredibly easy to kill and often needed lots of hits to get kills yet at the same time it was so fast and had so much pen people were mad about it despite it being a balancing nightmare to make it good enough that people will be able to play it and suffer enough that people won't complain about it's BR placement, even now that balancing hasn't really gone away, only gotten slightly better than it was before.

The other issue with the leo 1 is that is has a few tanks attached to it when it comes to BR placement, if it goes up then several other tanks have to move as well (thankfully the 40mm leo will never have to worry about that), for example the PT-76 57 which eats the leo alive along with it's sister in the Italian tree so when gaijin moved all the cold war stuff up in BR they had to move the PT but the problem was the PT was already pretty high at 8.0 so they couldn't really move it much as if it goes any higher then it will become a menace for the IFV's and wheeled tanks at 8.7 upward of which gaijin is selling a bunch of wheeled premiums which would easily turn into cannon fodder for the PT. So just moving one tank like the leo and it's contemporaries is a massive pain and pushing the leo down again means moving everyone else all over again.

PS: Leo sucks, don't drive it, just buy it and move on without it. Or keep driving it, my PT enjoy's the free meal