Yak-9k too Op?

[The_snail]

The Yak-9k is a fighter prop at br 4.0 do you think it should be higher?

[AttackerCat]

Mirage の投稿を引用：

This is so stupid as well, other nations get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ trying to get an AP or HVAP belts and others get it default.

US gets their high penning AP every other round on 20mm default belts. No increased spawn cost.
UK 20mm Hispanos get SAP with 26mm of pen on default belts, every 3 rounds. No increased spawn cost. 37mm pen AP-T with increased spawn cost.
US 75mm (PBJ, XA-38) gets AP every second shot with default belts. No increased spawn cost.
USSR NS-45 (the Yak 9K gun) gets APHE on default belts, every 3 rounds. No increased spawn cost. HVAP-T with more pen for increased spawn cost.

I'm not sure where the bias is here?

[Shad1902]

AttackerCat の投稿を引用：

Mirage の投稿を引用：

This is so stupid as well, other nations get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ trying to get an AP or HVAP belts and others get it default.

US gets their high penning AP every other round on 20mm default belts. No increased spawn cost.
UK 20mm Hispanos get SAP with 26mm of pen on default belts, every 3 rounds. No increased spawn cost. 37mm pen AP-T with increased spawn cost.
US 75mm (PBJ, XA-38) gets AP every second shot with default belts. No increased spawn cost.
USSR NS-45 (the Yak 9K gun) gets APHE on default belts, every 3 rounds. No increased spawn cost. HVAP-T with more pen for increased spawn cost.

I'm not sure where the bias is here?

AP-T != APHE

learn the bloody difference :)

also:

"Firing the cannon at speeds below 350 km/h (220 mph) caused a dramatic loss of control and tossed the pilot back and forth in the cockpit; however, accurate shooting was possible at higher speeds and in two- to three-round bursts. The recoil also caused numerous oil and coolant leaks. The heavy cannon decreased performance dramatically, especially at high altitudes, to the point that Yak-9Ks were relegated to heavy fighter duty and had to be escorted by Yak-3s."

ingame, firing the cannon has ZERO effect on the flight model. If we have to endure the gun (which was ineffective IRL), I'd at least have the REAL effects on the flight model ingame (safe for coolant leaks of course...those don't need to happen). Otherwise we will have the UFO we have now and pointing to a russian biais will increase...and is totally justified.

[French Cat]

AttackerCat の投稿を引用：

Mirage の投稿を引用：

This is so stupid as well, other nations get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ trying to get an AP or HVAP belts and others get it default.

US gets their high penning AP every other round on 20mm default belts. No increased spawn cost.
UK 20mm Hispanos get SAP with 26mm of pen on default belts, every 3 rounds. No increased spawn cost. 37mm pen AP-T with increased spawn cost.
US 75mm (PBJ, XA-38) gets AP every second shot with default belts. No increased spawn cost.
USSR NS-45 (the Yak 9K gun) gets APHE on default belts, every 3 rounds. No increased spawn cost. HVAP-T with more pen for increased spawn cost.

I'm not sure where the bias is here?

The amount of cope is insane. Giving APHE to a fighter is a horrible idea. Keyword: APHE

[AttackerCat]

Shad1902 の投稿を引用：

AP-T != APHE

learn the bloody difference :)

Failing to see how it is any different at all in terms of spawn cost when looking at default vs. dedicated ground belts.

Shad1902 の投稿を引用：

ingame, firing the cannon has ZERO effect on the flight model.

Other than recoil slowing the aircraft down, like with all aircraft. But yeah other than that no weapons on aircraft have more pronounced effects on the flight model.

Interesting tactic to use the performance drop off, as you quoted "especially at high altitudes" and simultaneously complain about the ground attack capabilities. And just a few comments ago you remarked about how helpful their 18 second turn time was in shooting them down.

French Cat の投稿を引用：

The amount of cope is insane.

I agree, it's a game, easier to complain about perceived bias versus learning to combat the vehicles.

[BlackWolf9988]

they gave it APHE

[French Cat]

AttackerCat の投稿を引用：

Shad1902 の投稿を引用：

AP-T != APHE

learn the bloody difference :)

Failing to see how it is any different at all in terms of spawn cost when looking at default vs. dedicated ground belts.

Shad1902 の投稿を引用：

ingame, firing the cannon has ZERO effect on the flight model.

Other than recoil slowing the aircraft down, like with all aircraft. But yeah other than that no weapons on aircraft have more pronounced effects on the flight model.

Interesting tactic to use the performance drop off, as you quoted "especially at high altitudes" and simultaneously complain about the ground attack capabilities. And just a few comments ago you remarked about how helpful their 18 second turn time was in shooting them down.

French Cat の投稿を引用：

The amount of cope is insane.

I agree, it's a game, easier to complain about perceived bias versus learning to combat the vehicles.

Lmao, seeing this just breaks my heart. You’re the one that is going “erm nuh-uh because it isn’t OP, it just isn’t!!!” The one coping my friend, is you… it is you that has a perceived bias on how vehicles perform. Use your brain, a magnificent piece of the human body, and open your eyes. Maybe there is a reason why people are complaining about it. Like how there is a reason why people complain about roads.

[BurakZG]

From Wikipedia:

Yak-9K

A Yak-9T modified with a 45 mm (1.8 in) NS-45 cannon with 29 rounds and a distinctive muzzle brake to deal with the massive recoil. Firing the cannon at speeds below 350 km/h (220 mph) caused a dramatic loss of control and tossed the pilot back and forth in the cockpit; however, accurate shooting was possible at higher speeds and in two- to three-round bursts. The recoil also caused numerous oil and coolant leaks. The heavy cannon decreased performance dramatically, especially at high altitudes, to the point that Yak-9Ks were relegated to heavy fighter duty and had to be escorted by Yak-3s. The Yak-9K saw only limited use due to the unreliability of the NS-45 and to airframe performance issues caused by the NS-45 and by the larger fuel tanks used on the Yak-9K; it also saw little use because of a reduced number of German bombers.

[Mirage]

AttackerCat の投稿を引用：

US
UK
USSR
I'm not sure where the bias is here?

That doesn't sound like all the nations we have in the game, I thought we had more than 3 nations?

And you're not sure where the bias is? Do you think those other weapons are one shotting a vehicle? Do you think this looks equal across the board?

It's insane to have a weapon like this on a fighter frame at 3.7, there is nothing in the same ballpark, kinda like how the Pantsir works.

https://imgur.com/a/ToL2VQC

I must say, it's also remarkable how this shell has a fuse sensitivity of only 1mm somehow.

[Malu]

They need to increase the BR in GRB. But it's Russian, it's never gonna happen lol

[AttackerCat]

Mirage の投稿を引用：

That doesn't sound like all the nations we have in the game, I thought we had more than 3 nations?

I thought the thread was on the russian bias of the yak 9 and how supposedly unbearable it is? Pointing out other nations have similar belt loadouts without spawn point penalty seems to not support your point, but to move on, not all nations have anti-armor capabilities on fighters (look at Sweden for example) though they do have aircraft like the T18B with the 57mm which, you guessed it, also gets AP rounds in its default belt, but just like all of my examples and the yak 9, it doesn't get a full belt of armor piercing without a spawn point increase.

Mirage の投稿を引用：

And you're not sure where the bias is? Do you think those other weapons are one shotting a vehicle? Do you think this looks equal across the board?

Yes actually, I can clean up 4-5 tanks with the P-51/Mustang Mk.1a and they're mainstays in my lineups in that BR bracket.

Mirage の投稿を引用：

It's insane to have a weapon like this on a fighter frame at 3.7,

See above (but it's at 4.3 in tank RB, not 3.7 like my example)

Mirage の投稿を引用：

there is nothing in the same ballpark, kinda like how the Pantsir works.

SPAA compares to Yak 9 how exactly?

[Shad1902]

AttackerCat の投稿を引用：

Pointing out other nations have similar belt loadouts without spawn point penalty seems to not support your point

I hate to quote myself, but here we go....

Shad1902 の投稿を引用：

AP-T != APHE

learn the bloody difference :)

[Mirage]

AttackerCat の投稿を引用：

[
I thought the thread was on the russian bias of the yak 9 and how supposedly unbearable it is? Pointing out other nations have similar belt loadouts without spawn point penalty seems to not support your point.

Can hardly call those things 'similar' belt loadouts.

AttackerCat の投稿を引用：

they do have aircraft like the T18B with the 57mm which, you guessed it, also gets AP rounds in its default belt.

Which like everything else doesn't nuke tanks and isn't mounted on a fighter plane.

AttackerCat の投稿を引用：

SPAA compares to Yak 9 how exactly?

It compares because they are both completely in a different league than anything else surrounding it, the 50mm 262 does less damage at 6.7.

And it still doesn't explain the 1mm fuse sensitivity.

[AttackerCat]

Mirage の投稿を引用：

Which like everything else doesn't nuke tanks and isn't mounted on a fighter plane.

So your issue isn't the Yak 9, it's that no other nations tried to mount those large cannons on fighters in the 1940s? Or I suppose at least in any significant capacity that left a drawing board. There's not really a lot that can be done about that.
Though if you're like me and into odd aircraft, we could always use this bad boy: https://militarymatters.online/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/AM106-1.jpg
I admit, maybe its wishful thinking but I'd love to see it.

Mirage の投稿を引用：

It compares because they are both completely in a different league than anything else surrounding it, the 50mm 262 does less damage at 6.7.

There are a lot of vehicles that don't have anything that directly compares to them across nations/BRs, I've seen what the 50mm 262 does to US heavies, it very much has oneshot capability. Not to speak against your experiences, but I've been on the receiving end of that 262 a lot recently trying to spade the 6.3-7.0 spread.
But if we're just talking about different leagues, for a while the Japanese T-2 absolutely stomped top tier, the Jumbos used to be 4.7, the F8U recently was a pretty big bully. Currently the Sea Vixen with its missiles has a pretty easy time at it's tier. It's not a unique to ussr occurrence.

Mirage の投稿を引用：

And it still doesn't explain the 1mm fuse sensitivity.

Fuse sensitivity is something not really in my knowledge wheelhouse, for sure it should be accurate, but I'm not exactly source material on what is accurate for aircraft shell fuses.
Just pulling from another 45mm gun, the one that's on the BT-5/7 series, those 45mm rounds have 9mm fuse sensitivity, which I don't know if they're even comparable to the same round, I'm not sure if that is something that should be bug reported offhand, without knowing a source for shell fuses.

[Mirage]

AttackerCat の投稿を引用：

So your issue isn't the Yak 9, it's that no other nations tried to mount those large cannons on fighters in the 1940s? Or I suppose at least in any significant capacity that left a drawing board. There's not really a lot that can be done about that.

Plenty of other examples of large guns, yet somehow none of them come even close to the performance of the Yak-9K somehow, and despite reports of the massive recoil and impact on the airframe and accuracy, we are left with a gun that is laser accurate with no drawback to flight performance to pump out a dozen rounds in succession.

'' A three-round burst, even when fired near the maximum airspeed of the Yak-9K, resulted in a noticeable loss of both airspeed and stability of the aircraft. Sometimes oil and water lines sprung leaks after the gun was fired. Firing the NS-45 at airspeeds below 350 km/h even shook the pilot back and forth as if in an automobile suddenly decelerating and accelerating ''

AttackerCat の投稿を引用：

There are a lot of vehicles that don't have anything that directly compares to them across nations/BRs, I've seen what the 50mm 262 does to US heavies, it very much has oneshot capability. Not to speak against your experiences, but I've been on the receiving end of that 262 a lot recently trying to spade the 6.3-7.0 spread.

The 262 does less damage and the jet is sluggish and no means to defend itself, the Yak gets a 12.7mm for self defense on top whilst also being a more competent plane in itself, the gun also has higher accuracy and a higher RoF.

AttackerCat の投稿を引用：

Fuse sensitivity is something not really in my knowledge wheelhouse, for sure it should be accurate, but I'm not exactly source material on what is accurate for aircraft shell fuses.
Just pulling from another 45mm gun, the one that's on the BT-5/7 series, those 45mm rounds have 9mm fuse sensitivity, which I don't know if they're even comparable to the same round, I'm not sure if that is something that should be bug reported offhand, without knowing a source for shell fuses.

I don't thnk there is any APHE shell that has a fuse that low, which means you can never over penetrate even light armor vehicles and always trigger the fuse.

Either way you can't give a plane just a nuke cannon out of nowhere and have it have zero impact on flight performance, no BR changes.. absurd.

[Nooby]

Kane の投稿を引用：

Mirage の投稿を引用：

This is so stupid as well, other nations get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ trying to get an AP or HVAP belts and others get it default.

Yeah.... but I heard there is no russian bias in this game. So all of you must be wrong. The white-knights said so.

Say otherwise and see yourself banned in this draconian wet dream censorship game :