Su-34 and the current state of SPAA

[GaugeSix]

Take Japan for example, this game has become less enjoyable(imo) due to the lack of ability to fight back. Take the Su-34 carrying either Kh-38MT (20km IR) or Kh-8ML(40km laser) vs japans TOP TIER SPAA the type 81c sitting at 11.3.

The type 81 missile has a maximum range of 10KM firing its optical/IR missile. I wont get into the absolute jank of this missile and the struggles of it getting a lock, but even to acquire a lock you need a target within 10km. How in the world are some nations supposed to even fight back? It's an absolute seal-club fest.

I understand introducing new and modern mechanics, but its a video game at the end of the day that people invest hundreds upon hundreds of hours to just to get one nation top tier. Other nations need the capabilities to fight back, to have an SPAA comparable to the panstir (to some degree)

[BIG JUNGUS]

Messaggio originale di ostanniy den:

CAS should out range AA, full stop. Get a fighter

Russian main braintard spotted

[xCrossFaith]

Messaggio originale di GaugeSix:

I believe this is getting siderailed. The point of this discussion isnt to say "go play aircraft" the discussion is the inability for SPAA to actually have a role. Many are so ineffective currently and the answer isnt just to spawn a plane with AA missiles. There is a fundamental issue with how top tier aircraft and SPAA are implemented

Exactly, that they are implemented in maps and game modes designed for WWII vehicles, so, for obvious reasons, it doesn't work when you put modern stuff into the mix

And they refuse to update that, so let's say they add good capable anti aircraft system like the Patriot, the only thing that will happen is that both aircraft and AA will be able to lock each other from spawn to spawn, and we will still have S400's facing F-18's on the Normandy map.

[nirvana_sth]

Messaggio originale di xCrossFaith:

Messaggio originale di GaugeSix:

I believe this is getting siderailed. The point of this discussion isnt to say "go play aircraft" the discussion is the inability for SPAA to actually have a role. Many are so ineffective currently and the answer isnt just to spawn a plane with AA missiles. There is a fundamental issue with how top tier aircraft and SPAA are implemented

Exactly, that they are implemented in maps and game modes designed for WWII vehicles, so, for obvious reasons, it doesn't work when you put modern stuff into the mix

And they refuse to update that, so let's say they add good capable anti aircraft system like the Patriot, the only thing that will happen is that both aircraft and AA will be able to lock each other from spawn to spawn, and we will still have S400's facing F-18's on the Normandy map.

It's partly true, but I don't think patriot system can be installed on the back of a truck?
Last I looked, flarakRad was the latest mobile SPAA platform Germany has irl.
Unless they go with stationary ones, I think the game will heavily favour the soviet team in future.

[xCrossFaith]

Messaggio originale di nirvana_sth:

Messaggio originale di xCrossFaith:

Exactly, that they are implemented in maps and game modes designed for WWII vehicles, so, for obvious reasons, it doesn't work when you put modern stuff into the mix

And they refuse to update that, so let's say they add good capable anti aircraft system like the Patriot, the only thing that will happen is that both aircraft and AA will be able to lock each other from spawn to spawn, and we will still have S400's facing F-18's on the Normandy map.

It's partly true, but I don't think patriot system can be installed on the back of a truck?
Last I looked, flarakRad was the latest mobile SPAA platform Germany has irl.
Unless they go with stationary ones, I think the game will heavily favour the soviet team in future.

If I remember well they made a Q&A a few days ago where they stated there are plans of better SPAA systems for all nations so... They may find a way to add stationary platforms for them

The problem will remain the same unless the maps and game modes change tho

When it comes to air domination, there is no nation in the game that comes close to US, but of course if you take the F-15 or F-14 and go face first to the battle, you will still have the best planes around, but will do nothing with them

USSR has the Pantsir which is undoubtedly the best SPAA, yes, but most of the stuff it faces can outrange it as well if it's played by a competent player

To keep it short and simple, the Pantsir presents the same situation as the F-14 did when it was introduced, you have to get away from it before trying to attack it

[nirvana_sth]

Messaggio originale di xCrossFaith:

Messaggio originale di nirvana_sth:

It's partly true, but I don't think patriot system can be installed on the back of a truck?
Last I looked, flarakRad was the latest mobile SPAA platform Germany has irl.
Unless they go with stationary ones, I think the game will heavily favour the soviet team in future.

If I remember well they made a Q&A a few days ago where they stated there are plans of better SPAA systems for all nations so... They may find a way to add stationary platforms for them

The problem will remain the same unless the maps and game modes change tho

When it comes to air domination, there is no nation in the game that comes close to US, but of course if you take the F-15 or F-14 and go face first to the battle, you will still have the best planes around, but will do nothing with them

USSR has the Pantsir which is undoubtedly the best SPAA, yes, but most of the stuff it faces can outrange it as well if it's played by a competent player

To keep it short and simple, the Pantsir presents the same situation as the F-14 did when it was introduced, you have to get away from it before trying to attack it

I'm completely with you on the subject of changing maps and modes. A tiny map suitable for tigers and shermans cannot be used for top tier matches, and the other day I found to my astonishment that pantsir could easily engage my F-14A which I brought to do what you mentioned - to defend against enemy's Su-34 - while I was flying over my air base. If I tried to go beyond my airbase, the game would respawn me with the usual "return to the battlefield" nonsense.
Addition of stationary SPAA is good news, still I think it will favour soviet players better than the rest.
And I must say, even if I spawn plane, I would go for CAS rather than air defence, usually to revenge kill.

[ravioli]

This is why tank v tank players hate CAS.
We're told Air gets to have Air vs Air and that's great, and if we're mad we should play SPAA. I don't want to play SPAA, and even when I do, in GRB it's so challenging to even hit planes unless you're perfectly positioned or they're bad and strafe you. SPAA isn't fun for so many people.

[GaugeSix]

Messaggio originale di ravioli:

This is why tank v tank players hate CAS.
We're told Air gets to have Air vs Air and that's great, and if we're mad we should play SPAA. I don't want to play SPAA, and even when I do, in GRB it's so challenging to even hit planes unless you're perfectly positioned or they're bad and strafe you. SPAA isn't fun for so many people.

Funny, i exclusively play SPAA whenever possible. I dont enjoy tank combat as much. Thats why its frustrating that there arent any viable SPAA at top tier besides panstir

[Bear]

I was playing US top tier last night. After my 1st death I spawned an ADATS. those of you who have ever played the ADATS knows that it has a very fast missile. I fired 7 missiles at an SU27 and he was able to dodge every single one of them. Not flare or chaff them, simply corkscrew before the missile got to him.

He was a great pilot but the ability to snap roll your way out of seven missiles is a bit much.

[Nak]

Messaggio originale di GaugeSix:

Messaggio originale di ravioli:

This is why tank v tank players hate CAS.
We're told Air gets to have Air vs Air and that's great, and if we're mad we should play SPAA. I don't want to play SPAA, and even when I do, in GRB it's so challenging to even hit planes unless you're perfectly positioned or they're bad and strafe you. SPAA isn't fun for so many people.

Funny, i exclusively play SPAA whenever possible. I dont enjoy tank combat as much. Thats why its frustrating that there arent any viable SPAA at top tier besides panstir

Honestly I tell this to my friends all the time, I think ground players should get to take control of stationary SAM emplacements in Air battles. Let us take control of like 5 Patriot or S-300 missile batteries with a few radar emplacements scattered around the map and let us lob 20 of those 70+km range missiles at the players flying around. Would be so cathartic.

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

Messaggio originale di Bear:

I was playing US top tier last night. After my 1st death I spawned an ADATS. those of you who have ever played the ADATS knows that it has a very fast missile. I fired 7 missiles at an SU27 and he was able to dodge every single one of them. Not flare or chaff them, simply corkscrew before the missile got to him.

He was a great pilot but the ability to snap roll your way out of seven missiles is a bit much.

Imagine the pilot writing 'I am Iron Man' in the chat to make that moment legendary

[GaugeSix]

Messaggio originale di Bear:

I was playing US top tier last night. After my 1st death I spawned an ADATS. those of you who have ever played the ADATS knows that it has a very fast missile. I fired 7 missiles at an SU27 and he was able to dodge every single one of them. Not flare or chaff them, simply corkscrew before the missile got to him.

He was a great pilot but the ability to snap roll your way out of seven missiles is a bit much.

the adats was panstir level when it released. better even. They nerfed it to the ground and the missiles are extremely sluggish to maneuver

[AsG_Alligator]

Gaijin in general seems to hate when SPAA actually can do its job. Just look at all the british closed-top AA's that got raised in BR because they couldnt be strafed by planes. Skink went from 4.7 to 6.0 god******!

[xCrossFaith]

Messaggio originale di Bear:

I was playing US top tier last night. After my 1st death I spawned an ADATS. those of you who have ever played the ADATS knows that it has a very fast missile. I fired 7 missiles at an SU27 and he was able to dodge every single one of them. Not flare or chaff them, simply corkscrew before the missile got to him.

He was a great pilot but the ability to snap roll your way out of seven missiles is a bit much.

I think they messed with the SPAA missiles in general

I had that happen with my ADATS as well, and this oast week I've been having Phantoms outrun 2S6 missiles as well even at close range

Then I was shot by someone using the Stormer, which I assure you from experience when it's hitreg doesn't go bananas it's quite a good vehicle, I dodged the missile with an heli doing the most basic roll there can be

It's like something is off in general

[spartakisteqc]

Messaggio originale di AsG_Alligator:

Gaijin in general seems to hate when SPAA actually can do its job. Just look at all the british closed-top AA's that got raised in BR because they couldnt be strafed by planes. Skink went from 4.7 to 6.0 god******!

That's very true. Gaijin loves to cuddle the CAS main players like entitled little babies.

[AsG_Alligator]

Messaggio originale di spartakisteqc:

Messaggio originale di AsG_Alligator:

Gaijin in general seems to hate when SPAA actually can do its job. Just look at all the british closed-top AA's that got raised in BR because they couldnt be strafed by planes. Skink went from 4.7 to 6.0 god******!

That's very true. Gaijin loves to cuddle the CAS main players like entitled little babies.

Yup, god forbid an AA vehicle can, you know, kill planes.

Theres a few other vehicles like the british ones i mentioned. The kugelblitz comes to mind. Why is a WW2 AA with slow af turret traverse and slow RoF pitted against jets?