About Sweden pz 4 vs the German ones.

[mochi's journey]

So i had a little curious on why does the Pz 4 in the Swedish tech tree is just the worse version compare to the 2 Pz4 in the German tech tree while all of them are in the same Br. Now the best one from what i see is the Pz 4 H which gets add-on track armor and 8.9 degree of turret traverse while the J only gets add-on armor and 5.9 degree of turret traverse. The Swedish one is the worst with nothing and a 5.9 degree of turret traverse.
I asked this on Reddit and the responses were brain-dead responses saying like it's fine and just buy a premium Sherman so i gave up there and decided to ask here. Seriously how is this fair like not to mention Sweden only has like 2 vehicles at 3.7 vs German more enough for a line up (and better at that)

[Nuisuli]

its the j variant which is also 3.7 in german tree

[Fr4ntic]

Originally posted by mochi's journey:

I asked this on Reddit and the responses were brain-dead

I have a feeling there's a lesson inhere but I cant get my finger on it yet...

[mochi's journey]

Originally posted by Fr4ntic:

Originally posted by mochi's journey:

I asked this on Reddit and the responses were brain-dead

I have a feeling there's a lesson inhere but I cant get my finger on it yet...

Like I said, their responses were pretty much "just buy premium, the swedish 3.7 lineup is good what are you talking about, buy premium problem solved" without saying much about what part is good but mostly the premium.

[mochi's journey]

Originally posted by Nuisuli:

its the j variant which is also 3.7 in german tree

Check the modifications in both the J and the Swedish one, you'll see the difference

[Nuisuli]

Originally posted by mochi's journey:

Originally posted by Nuisuli:

its the j variant which is also 3.7 in german tree

Check the modifications in both the J and the Swedish one, you'll see the difference

maybe its because german mains get babied bcoz theyre stupid lol
sweden players get the short end of the stick because theyre better

[biomike]

Originally posted by mochi's journey:

Originally posted by Nuisuli:

its the j variant which is also 3.7 in german tree

Check the modifications in both the J and the Swedish one, you'll see the difference

The only difference is the add on armor and thats not enough for it to go up in BR

[FireFromBehind]

Look at the German and Italian G variant, same ♥♥♥♥.

It comes down to how Gaijin balances vehicles.

Then again, all German Pz.4s are undertired

[Mirage]

German Pz IVs are intentionally undertiered so they could be pushed into rank ll as they were very popular vehicles to grind events, now you need to grind a lot more to create a lineup of a way higher BR.

[⛧GuerrilaDragon⛧]

Originally posted by Mirage:

German Pz IVs are intentionally undertiered so they could be pushed into rank ll as they were very popular vehicles to grind events, now you need to grind a lot more to create a lineup of a way higher BR.

There was no need to lower their BR and put them at rank II. I find it somewhat funny how the premium Pz. IV ( which sits at a BR of 4.0) is rank III but the tech-tree variant is at rank II.

[biomike]

Originally posted by GuerrilaDragon:

Originally posted by Mirage:

German Pz IVs are intentionally undertiered so they could be pushed into rank ll as they were very popular vehicles to grind events, now you need to grind a lot more to create a lineup of a way higher BR.

There was no need to lower their BR and put them at rank II. I find it somewhat funny how the premium Pz. IV ( which sits at a BR of 4.0) is rank III but the tech-tree variant is at rank II.

Thats cause they will never lower the rank of premium tanks/planes/ships as their cost and effective research are tied to the rank they are

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by biomike:

Originally posted by mochi's journey:

Check the modifications in both the J and the Swedish one, you'll see the difference

The only difference is the add on armor and thats not enough for it to go up in BR

Literally this. Just because a vehicle is slightly worse than a different version, that doesn't mean it needs to also be lower BR. Plenty of vehicles are the same BR when one is clearly superior, but only a little bit.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by biomike:

Originally posted by GuerrilaDragon:

There was no need to lower their BR and put them at rank II. I find it somewhat funny how the premium Pz. IV ( which sits at a BR of 4.0) is rank III but the tech-tree variant is at rank II.

Thats cause they will never lower the rank of premium tanks/planes/ships as their cost and effective research are tied to the rank they are

I'd still argue that they shouldn't do it anyway. The best BRs in the game to play are 3.7-4.0 honestly, and with how few lineups you can make nowadays in that range that can still progress battle passes, it can be hard to have fun. If there hits a day where the lowest BR at rank III is 4.7 or something I might stop playing entirely, or if I play I'll never buy a battlepass or anything again since I can't play the vehicles I enjoy and grind those out at the same time.

[Gaius]

It's still a great tank. The reason probably is something like "it's the same BR for the same tank in the Ger tree, and lowering a Pz IV to 3.3 would completely destroy 2.3". So no, the BR system ATM doesn't accomodate for this ti have lower BR or the best ones to have higher.

[mochi's journey]

Originally posted by biomike:

Originally posted by mochi's journey:

Check the modifications in both the J and the Swedish one, you'll see the difference

The only difference is the add on armor and thats not enough for it to go up in BR

If you look at the H, it's better in every way.10.5 degree/s vs 7.3/s that's too good. The track armor may not look like much but I remember countless times where my US 75mm couldn't pen the H variation just because of that track armor + with the track it's pretty much near tiger 1 hull thickness. If i were to be fair, the H seems like a 4.0 and not 3.7 but hey it's gaijin.

[mochi's journey]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by biomike:

The only difference is the add on armor and thats not enough for it to go up in BR

Literally this. Just because a vehicle is slightly worse than a different version, that doesn't mean it needs to also be lower BR. Plenty of vehicles are the same BR when one is clearly superior, but only a little bit.

The H variation has 10.5 degree of turret traverse when spaded, the Swedish is only 7.3. That's a hughe difference and combine that with track armor you get 95mm of effective armor around hull area which can negate soviet 76mm and defeat US 75mm if you angle or shake your tank around, which means the only reliable shot is at the turret which is 66mm, easier to hit in close range but not at distance.