Why are the Chi To and Chi To Late at 4.7?

[Champion of Sparta]

Honest question, I am not complaining about the tank itself. The tank is okay....but it is at the wrong BR. The Chi To's are essentially a much worse Panzer IV J.

The CHI To is essentially a what if tank? What if we made the T1E1 ever worse, removed all the armor that way even a 45mm can kill it frontally, oh and make the mobility even worse (yes it can reach a higher top speed (40kmh vs 50kmh) but good luck actually using it, when the tank acceleration is so slow from having to turn, and it is essentially incapable of turning while being stationary.

Oh and don't get me started on the gun, its essentially a 75mm from the panzer iv h...but worse reload. Wait hold up, lets actually compare stats, a tank from 4.0 (panzer iv H vs CHI TO late)

(I recorded the speed time's and turn times on my phone right as I press w)

Panzer IV H
0-40kmh 6.72 seconds
Vehicle stationary turn 7.42 seconds
Turret Turn (360) 14.97 seconds
Reload 6.3 Seconds
Height 8 FT 10 IN
(yes the Panzer IV is nearly as tall, but that is only because it wears the commanders cupola as a top hat, where the gun is the CHI To late is essentially the turret roof of the Panzer IV H)
Width 9 FT 5 IN
Length 19 FT 5 IN
Armor Penetration: Within 5-6mm of each other

CHI TO LATE
0-40kmh 6.48 seconds
Vehicle stationary turn 31.17 Seconds
Turret turn (360) 21.20 seconds
Reload 6.5 Seconds
Height 9 FT 5 IN
Width 9FT 5 IN
Length 21 FT 1IN

ARMOR:
HULL
Panzer IV H: 80/30/20
CHI TO LATE: 75/35/35 (much worse especially when considering the BR)
Turrets:
Panzer IV H: 50/30/30
CHI TO LATE: 75/50/50
(both equally garbage in turret armor)

GUN DEPRESSION: Both -10

Survivability:
Panzer IV H: I have bounced sherman 75mm frontally, and can do so once in a while
CHI TO LATE: BT-7's SCARE ME

Listen, im not bashing the tank but the stats speak for themselves. I have had some pretty alright matches in it. But in now way does it need to be at 4.7, it needs to be more along the lines of 4.0. Its just to dang big of a target for the performance it actually gives. Would be curious about your guys opinion on this?

And yes...I am dreading getting the Chi RI III

[Champion of Sparta]

Note, I had to completely reformat how everything above was structured. Steam absolutely brutally destroyed the layout I had.

[Mirage]

The Panzer IVs are a bit low so Gaijin could force them into rank ll and the Japanese tanks across the board are high because it's a minor nation and Gaijin refuses to compensate for low player numbers and the disparity in playerbase between nations, that's why there's a Japanese prop plane at 7.7.

[Champion of Sparta]

Originally posted by Mirage:

The Panzer IVs are a bit low so Gaijin could force them into rank ll and the Japanese tanks across the board are high because it's a minor nation and Gaijin refuses to compensate for low player numbers and the disparity in playerbase between nations, that's why there's a Japanese prop plane at 7.7.

The whole point that the Panzer IV's are at 4.0 is the simple fact that the KV1's and T-34's exist. Whats the point of the CHI TO's existence in this game at 4.7? What can it do, that no other tank can do better at 4.7?

[-=GHS=-BoonDock™]

because gaijoob hand holds germany with everything, meanwhile japan gets shafted constantly like almost all minor nations but harder.

[Solaire]

Gaijin balances by statistics. Major nations have more new players and the statistics of their vehicles get diluted. Minor nations are typically harder and have less players, they're also played by people who've already done other trees. This inflates the statistics of these vehicles.

[Illusionyary]

Originally posted by Solaire:

Gaijin balances by statistics. Major nations have more new players and the statistics of their vehicles get diluted. Minor nations are typically harder and have less players, they're also played by people who've already done other trees. This inflates the statistics of these vehicles.

This is the jist of it.

There's less people playing Japanese tanks but those who do play tend to be better players and do better in them, leading to a massive disparity between how a vehicle actually performs and what BR its assigned. This is why I dislike their player statistic system. In my opinion vehicle performance should come first with player performance second.

[plugwater]

Nah dude you have nothing to worry about when it comes to the Chi-Ri II. It's a really nifty tank and my personal favourite. The autoloader helps a bunch when picking far-off targets, as well as up close where you can use the secondary gun to bait someone to peek.

That being said, I personally don't want to upset the balance. Chi-To pattern tanks are fine at their BR - I would feel cheap facing anything below what you can find there. You know what I mean? It basically would make the entire experience easier, less painful than is typical of Japan. Also on a plus side their APHE is loaded with explosive filler, iirc more than German tanks for most of the tree. So don't worry about post-penetration performance. Shells aren't capped APHE, however.

More egregious examples can be the 3.3. Lineup. The only saving grace is the Na-To, but it's literally a truck with a gun on it that has a relatively short arc of fire. The Chi-Nu is absolutely awful, but I'm forced to like it as that was the most mass-produced Japanese tank of WW2. In fact, the 3.3 Loadout is so lacking I have to bring the Ho-Ni III from 2.3 to plug up any holes. In my opinion, the Ho-Ni III is really good. It has some faults as a casemate TD with pretty thin armour, but in general I found it to perform fairly well.

[Illusionyary]

Originally posted by s_bujiang:

The Chi-Nu is absolutely awful, but I'm forced to like it as that was the most mass-produced Japanese tank of WW2.

Think you're getting confused with the Chi-Ha there, the Chi-Nu only had about 150 examples built and none of them saw combat. The Chi-Ha on the other hand had over 1100 built and fought in almost every theatre Japan fought in, although that pales in comparison to the Ha-Go which had over 2300 built.

[plugwater]

Originally posted by Illusionyary:

Originally posted by s_bujiang:

The Chi-Nu is absolutely awful, but I'm forced to like it as that was the most mass-produced Japanese tank of WW2.

Think you're getting confused with the Chi-Ha there, the Chi-Nu only had about 150 examples built and none of them saw combat. The Chi-Ha on the other hand had over 1100 built and fought in almost every theatre Japan fought in, although that pales in comparison to the Ha-Go which had over 2300 built.

Sorry, meant to clarify the last mass-produced tank. I'm aware chi-ha and shinhoto chi-ha were produced in large quantities, same with Ha-Go.

[Smeg]

Originally posted by Solaire:

Gaijin balances by statistics. Major nations have more new players and the statistics of their vehicles get diluted. Minor nations are typically harder and have less players, they're also played by people who've already done other trees. This inflates the statistics of these vehicles.

This