Forward Assembly Nerf / Defensive Operation Nerf

[glythe]

Ok so it's been bothering me for quite a while now. Forward Assemblies really need to be limited to a unique entity per player. How many majors can you have as the Americans? How many Hospitals can you have as the Okw? There is zero justification for letting one faction have an infite number of forward retreat points. You may as well let the OKW build an extra hospital or two... or let them build 3 repair buildings next to each other (not that I'm asking for it.... merely pointing out the ridiculous nature of the current balance).

And then there's this new commander for the Brits. His Forward Assembly repairs vehicles and buildings from what I gather. That's just silly because it allows the player to leave his forward base pretty much in an AFK fashion (especially if you leave the mortar on counter barrage once you have starting pushing into enemy territory). I have to say overall repairing buildings for free at the assembly is just over the top.

Not needing RE to build the emplacements means you can build them sooner. This messes with the counterplay aspect in that there is far less risk and a lot more reward for putting out an early emplacement. I highly suggest this ability gets moved back 1-2 CP so that the RE will still be the FIRST option to build emplacements. Taking a step back I have to ask why would this doctrine try to take RE out of the loop? RE turn into amazing combatants with 2x Bren+ Vickers and an extra soldier under the Anvil specialization. The only thing I can guess here is that Relic is pushing the player to play as Hammer and focus on Infantry sections (who can repair buildings but not tanks).

One way to reduce the "AFK" nature of this commander would be requiring infantry to apply the fortification upgrade. Furthermore the price of just munitions seems a bit too cheap. The brits are supposed to be pressed for manpower and this commander just isn't. I suggest adding a 50 mp cost for each upgraded building.

[Patrykblack7]

Since when you can get more than one mayor?

[Detto Dong]

I hope you are a troll

[@theweedfather]

Originally posted by ☭Patrykblack7☭:

Since when you can get more than one mayor?

You can't, OP doesn't know how allies work yet thinks they should be nerfed because reasons.

[glythe]

I'm aware the major is limited to 1 per player but the FA is not. That was the point since you missed it.

[@theweedfather]

Originally posted by glythe:

I'm aware the major is limited to 1 per player but the FA is not. That was the point since you missed it.

That's as stupid as making several repair stations as soviet, it takes up popcap you could be using for something else and if you seriously lose to people "spamming" it you have bigger problems than game balance.

[mustachewarfare]

Originally posted by glythe:

I'm aware the major is limited to 1 per player but the FA is not. That was the point since you missed it.

cause brit is floating on MP by using core infantry that gets best portable AT weapon (that can be upgraded anywhere) and can fight anything

[Confeve Fiend]

There are few things where I agree and disagree on this.

1. While the FA is potent it's also squishy(and with the new commander a costly investment when upgraded), To make it a retreat point, you spend an additional 200 MP. For the new upgrade you need 3 CP and 75 mun, which the earlier this occurs, the harder it hits in weapons/mines.

2. The Upgraded assembly, again 3 CP and a pricetag(don't recall) This arguably needs adjustment because it is very beneficial, the easiest balance would be make it a sidegrade against the Retreat upgrade (like picking hammer or anvil) or even making it incompatable with the enhanced fortification upgrade forcing a different sidegrade. Possibly add a popcap cost to the upgrade.

3. "Too many retreat points!" again you're talking a substantial investment that is static, 380 MP for a soft target if undefended(even if defended, you can burn it down quick barring real defenses), if you're allowing the UK to get a comfy MP cushion to build muliple FAs then you're not even challenging them for resources.

[glythe]

1. The OKW retreat point costs 300 MP now even though you also pay 100 mp for the truck.

2. The upgraded assembly is flat out too good because it repairs buildings AND vehicles and allows the fortification owner to largly IGNORE his forward buildings as long as they are inside the repair radius. I think the bug relic removed (the engineers that were repariing stuff for a while had pop cap) might have been part of the necessary balance.

3. So why are the OKW limited to three trucks? Let them make as many as they want that they can pay for because that too is a sizeable investment. Oh wait because that would be completely OP for the Axis. But it's just fine for the British? Please.

Here's the thing your'e ignoring that Mustache pointed out. I played a game last night where I put down my bofors having only 1 HMG and 2 infantry sections. I held that position just fine until I could put out my mortar, and had no challenges when I had enough fuel/mp put out my assembly (and upgraded it). Not needing 2 squads of engineers saves a ridiculous amount of manpower.... so much so that you can very easily just throw down a second forward assembly behind the first. On the second assembly you just get the repair upgrade.

This commander allows for a massive manpower float and that is incredibly powerful especially since that is supposed to be the British weakness. You can play without ever making a RE and have no regrets (other than the fact that they have demo charges to clear terrain for building). It's pretty damn broken that you can put down your bofors after making the enemy retreat from the first or second engagement. I will remind you that this disrupts the counterplay aspect of how the british normally work (building early is supposed to be somewhat dangerous but building that early is a joke with almost zero risk).

Might I remind you the Ostheer and Soviets have zero forward retreat points. There's not really a lot you can say here other than, "please don't nerf my OP cheese". Limiiting the FA to exactly one per player would go a long way to making an OP commander somewhat limited. It is my guess that the FA will get nerfed so that it can't repair vehicles. For one thing this is exactly what the OKW building does. I will remind everyone that people said well the OKW have better buildings so their fortifications have to suck so bad they are unusable. If RE can't repair vehicles that suddenly becomes a reason for the player to make RE. That too would be a weakness that would balance the commander without gutting it.


I think it's pretty undefendable to try and say the Advanced Fortification doctrine is not OP.

1. The commander would work just fine if ALL brits were limited to just 1 FA.
2. The commander would be quasi balanced if the player needed RE to repair tanks.

Change those two things and suddenly you have a cool commander choice who has limits; the current commander has very few and that is why he is broken.

[Patrykblack7]

Originally posted by glythe:

1. The OKW retreat point costs 300 MP now even though you also pay 100 mp for the truck.

2. The upgraded assembly is flat out too good because it repairs buildings AND vehicles and allows the fortification owner to largly IGNORE his forward buildings as long as they are inside the repair radius. I think the bug relic removed (the engineers that were repariing stuff for a while had pop cap) might have been part of the necessary balance.

3. So why are the OKW limited to three trucks? Let them make as many as they want that they can pay for because that too is a sizeable investment. Oh wait because that would be completely OP for the Axis. But it's just fine for the British? Please.

Here's the thing your'e ignoring that Mustache pointed out. I played a game last night where I put down my bofors having only 1 HMG and 2 infantry sections. I held that position just fine until I could put out my mortar, and had no challenges when I had enough fuel/mp put out my assembly (and upgraded it). Not needing 2 squads of engineers saves a ridiculous amount of manpower.... so much so that you can very easily just throw down a second forward assembly behind the first. On the second assembly you just get the repair upgrade.

This commander allows for a massive manpower float and that is incredibly powerful especially since that is supposed to be the British weakness. You can play without ever making a RE and have no regrets (other than the fact that they have demo charges to clear terrain for building). It's pretty damn broken that you can put down your bofors after making the enemy retreat from the first or second engagement. I will remind you that this disrupts the counterplay aspect of how the british normally work (building early is supposed to be somewhat dangerous but building that early is a joke with almost zero risk).

Might I remind you the Ostheer and Soviets have zero forward retreat points. There's not really a lot you can say here other than, "please don't nerf my OP cheese". Limiiting the FA to exactly one per player would go a long way to making an OP commander somewhat limited. It is my guess that the FA will get nerfed so that it can't repair vehicles. For one thing this is exactly what the OKW building does. I will remind everyone that people said well the OKW have better buildings so their fortifications have to suck so bad they are unusable. If RE can't repair vehicles that suddenly becomes a reason for the player to make RE. That too would be a weakness that would balance the commander without gutting it.


I think it's pretty undefendable to try and say the Advanced Fortification doctrine is not OP.

1. The commander would work just fine if ALL brits were limited to just 1 FA.
2. The commander would be quasi balanced if the player needed RE to repair tanks.

Change those two things and suddenly you have a cool commander choice who has limits; the current commander has very few and that is why he is broken.

OKW trucks are bases
Its like USF could make army of captains
Also where the ♥♥♥♥ do you saw more than one FA?
Where
Players bulid only one cuz its only needed (lol)

[glythe]

If players only build one then just hardcode limit it to one per player (if the game is as you say then there is no problem anyway).