German vs Russian

[CyberDown]

So im getting the idea that german side isnt about heavy armor and more about mobility

or am i missing something

i tend to get wiped the second the soviets can pump out tanks, and they seem to pump a lot out...and my tanks seem somewhat useless against them.

oh im sure a big portion is AI cheat mechanics but still..i prefer the big tanks and im not really seeing any of that out of the german side...unless im getting stomped by a mid game russian advantage and never get to the part where i can make those heavy german tanks.

Realistically my preferd play style is to turtle defense with some structures and heavy armor...kind of looking for whatever side provides that best i guess..

any advice? Im not seeing anything on youtube that really breaks down each sides pros and cons ect.

*mind you ive only played a few skirmishes

[SkyDogAlaman]

You can't be defensive in this game, you can only win if you capture and maintain fuel points early on, or atleast use engineers to build caches. The Germans are quite easier for me because not only do they have better tanks, but they have amazing infantry (mg 42) that can capture points early on.. Once you get to rank 35 or 45 you get assault support doctrine which helps the germans out with the opel resource truck that adds resource income when deployed in a sector..

[Joikax]

German tanks are better than the russian's. Pop out a Panther and its easy.

[CyberDown]

yeah i just played my first multiplayer and went soviet because hardly anyone else was...

was really shocked to see under 20 players waiting for a game...that doesnt seem right...unless the game is having issues with player participation in multiplayer.

Obviously is everyone is going german they are better...sucks because i got a bunch of german DLC and will probably go soviets just so i can play quick.


Perhaps they need another nation to spread the people out and make games pop faster...then do a slight buff to soviets or something.

Yeah the game really doesnt seem defensive oritented...even as an option really. Pacing is very slow too...far too long running around with low level troops imo...not enough time playing with the fun toys.

For whatever reason i remember Company Of Heros Online (the short lived game they shut down in beta and it was doing really well) giving you the option via generals to lock down those capture points while other options included ninjaing and or quick troop movement to take more points...was a really good combo since you could lock down defensively one or two vital points while your teammates would compete for other points.


BTW this game REALLY makes me miss COHO...rumor had it that they were afraid it would cut into COH2 because...well it was damn good, it was free with a cash shop, and a nice loot/card drop system...and was damn fun...and really easy to get into.

Still a little iffy on this game...though im super new at it and dont get all the mechanics yet....seems a touch harder to get into than the online game.

[Aristotle Full Throttle]

In my opinion out of the 152 games I have played (65 German and 87 Russian and not considering all the custom games I play to test units out on both sides) whole way through I hypothesize that the majority of players on both sides do not understand how to win tacticly. I advance this by the constant spamming that occurs on both sides (I do not mean using a one type of unit a lot at a single stage of battle but throughout it, at least 2/3rds of the stages) with conscripts, Ostwinds, and other low and medium pop cap priced units. Spamming shows not a lick of tactical skill but mob warfare mentality.

I digress but the point is that if you want to win you have to use combined arms tactics (there is a tutorial for this on the game) like using a combination of anti tank and anti infantry units (and support units like halftracks) which means grenadiers, panzer 4 and up and an ostwind for good measure with a halfrack or for Soviets conscripts, KV 8, and an SU 85. You say you like turtle defense so I assume you like to take the middle ground and hold that throughout the game so MG 42s, panzergrenadiers (majority of them have panzershrecks), maybe a halftrack and a panther or a heavier tank. There's just one issue with that (this differs according to your doctrine) and that is that if you wait around you give the enemy time to recouperate and therefore prepare himself and devise a strategy of attack you might not be prepared for (assuming you do not do reconnaisonce).

To help explain this though I should elaborate on the "pros and cons" of both sides. Germans have an advantage in fuel where their tanks cost less (an example the Panzer 4 costs 880 manpower and 200 fuel while the SU-85 costs 795 manpower and 245 fuel and the T34/76 is 755 manpower and 215 fuel) and such tanks with the exception of the Ostwind, Elephant, and Stug III can have 3 mgs (if you get pintle mount) giving them considerable infantry stopping power and for the most part german tanks are superior to their soviet counterparts in one on one combat with a only one exception (KV8 and Ostwind) and do not complain about the SU 85 as soon as you get around it (which is not hard), it is a turtle on its back. The Soviets advantage is only temporary depending on your german doctrine, but the advantage is that SU 85s (without the bulletin) have incredible range (I think it almost meets the Elephant with scope range if it uses the forward focus, bulletin and tracking ability at the same time). In infantry Germans have more non doctrine recruitable versatility (panzerschrecks, first aid, mg42s, and bunker building), but that comes at the price of smaller units while Soviets have to use doctrines to get elite infantry capable of damaging tanks or infantry (shock or guardsmen). Shock Troops serve as the soviet equivalent of panzergrendiers in close combat. Both sides though have two unit that for that for all purposes are equal pioneers, combat engineers, conscripts, and grenadiers.

The engineers for the most part are the same just differences in killing range and the riflemen just have the difference of mg42s, numbers, the panzerfaust can attack buildings, and merge. In artillery German mortars shoot faster and can have mobile mortars while being able to counter barrage with the 105mm being a bit more accurate than the 152mm also the rocket werfer has an mg 42 and delivers its salvo all at once. Soviet artillery tends to just as inaccurate if not more but counters by the single strike ability (which sometimes misses even) and more damage across the board. In HMGs the maxim has faster set up time and more crewmen but does not deal the damage an MG42 does, but the MG42 has longer set up and can use armor piercing rounds to kill anything short of a T34/76 (I have killed SU 76s and T 70s with MG42s).

In building abilities the Soviet HQ can heal infantry, but requires payment along with other soviet conscript upgrades, however, no technology upgrades are required (they just have to build buildings a severely higher cost than germans). Germans counter with bunkers that can be built and can become pillboxes, healing stations, and command posts; the HQs, however, require resources to upgrade technology with bonus of not having to purchase grenadier upgrades. In vehicles the germans have scout cars are effective against light armor and down and can have a tremendously effective anti infantry halfrackor carry two squads . Soviets have a scout car that has a 50. cal and 30. cal with ability of carrying a squad (if vehicle blows up beware the whole squad can go with it) and a halftrack that can kill infantry and aircraft alike (also has suppression capability) or carry two squads.

In anti tank team weapons, and infantry and vehicles the Germans have the Pak 40, Pak 43, Stug III, Panzergrenadiers, and Elephants. The Soviets have Zis-3 76mm, Su 85, Guardsmen, ISU 152, and the 152mm howitzer. The Germans have the advantage of having longer ranged anti tank weapons, the HEAT ammo, panzerschrecks and ariel recon. The Soviets counter with the uber long ranged but inaccurate 152mm howitzer, longe range SU 85 and ISU 152 with combination of buttoning from Guardsmen and with the Zis 3 have artillery capabilities.

In doctrines the Germans get many different support doctrines like the ability to bring an artillery officer to improve accuracy or call in smoke or artillery, recon overflight, (in most doctrines) opel blitz trucks, command panzer 4s, smoke bombing, and different artillery call ins. The soviets really have nothing to counter this (look it up) but mark vehicle, recon overflight, conscript ingenuity (if you use it on every team vehicle), and incedinary artillery.

So from that summary those are the pro's and cons but that still does not tell the whole story. Most players on both sides to want what I would call a god unit (invincible and anti anything with perfect speed, armor, and turn) but that would truly ruin the game because tactics wouldn't matter just having the brute strength would. So as I stated before most players are tacticly and strategically inept which is why so many people say a unit is OP because rather than trying to out maneveur the obstacle they want the obstacle to be not as high.

An example will help. I observe that many german players tend to use armor and panzergrenadiers and only the two by end game meaning that really the only think they are up against soviet armor, but if a soviet player uses a combination of conscripts, schock troops, KV 8 and one SU 85 the germans can lose. First the soviet player will need to do recon to discover the location of the german armor then move his armor into position. Next he will use his conscripts (useful little meat shields) to lure the armor by running close enough to get their attention and then run back the SU 85. After the panzers have come into the range of the SU 85 the conscripts use their RPG grenades and then fight till they have to retreat. The SU 85 uses forward focus and snipes the panzers till they are dead and if the panzergrenadiers move in the for the kill then the KV8 roasts some fasciti. When I play Germans against Soviets; soviet players tend to be split between T34/76 (worthless in my opinion) and the SU 85, but the idea stays the same I use my grenadiers or recon overflight to find the Soviet Armor then panzerfaust, next flank and kill armor with my armor while using grenadiers and flamenwerfer has a deterrent against enemy infantry.

Those two examples displayed the use of moblile combined arms tactics (mind you it costs more for soviets) in defeating enemy forces (also remember teamwork helps a lot too). The final piece though is strategy which is basically your fighting mentality. Are you defensive or offensive?If offensive then things will likely go better for you as you then decide the tempo of battle and where the fighting will take place. Also remember that ammo wins early game but fuel wins late game so if you are having issues with tons of soviet tanks then control fuel so fewer soviet tanks can join the battle and then you will have the fuel to build heavy tanks. I hope it helps.

[Aristotle Full Throttle]

Sorry about coming in a little late the I had a lot to say and participation has been weak from my observation.

[CyberDown]

no it was a good read. Ive won both of my multiplayer matches (though most lag out or leave)

Ive been soviets both times...i seen the popular german strategies on youtube and ill typically go german in any war game (like their machines what can i say)

However after playing soviet in multiplayer...i really agree with you on most of your points.

Ok so german might have a slight advantage with tanks...thing is im not afraid of tanks where like in most games...they are the god mode units and only anti tanks or more tanks can counter...i did just fine with troops against them...and the germans did more than fine blowing up my tanks with their troops...there wasnt really even a need for the anti tank gun tbh.

Im not sure why 95% of multiplayer is german...i mean i get why if you like their tanks and machinery...

Now i just wish that multiplayer was a bit more diverse...they need more nations to spread out the possiblities and perhaps remove the notion that a german and soviet cant be on the same side perhaps... multiplayer has potential but seems overly lacking due to everyone queuing as german and all my games being more computer AI than actual players in the end.

Part of me dislikes the fact that troops are so versatile...i kind of liked back when troops for the most part were early game other than support and capture. But again im only a few games into multiplayer.

Obviously my intital concern was seeing the player queues (not only being very...very small in number) being overwhelmingly german...which led me to belive there were issues...on top of my issue with the computer AI obviously being a cheat to increase difficulty (my first few gams as german i got curb stomped...i had just started making low end tanks and like 20 enemy high end tanks came to say hi..this was against normal AI i think maybe hard for all i know)

[LetterKenny]

I'm sorry...I don't know what drugs you people are all on but this game is all about German tank rushes. They have like 600 different types of tanks - ALL better than the russians, the infantry is better...I can't think of ANYTHING the russians have expect to churn out crappy conscripts and underpowered MGs. AM I WRONG? I have NEVER played a game this unbalanced in my life

[CyberDown]

Originally posted by Nowhere Man:

I'm sorry...I don't know what drugs you people are all on but this game is all about German tank rushes. They have like 600 different types of tanks - ALL better than the russians, the infantry is better...I can't think of ANYTHING the russians have expect to churn out crappy conscripts and underpowered MGs. AM I WRONG? I have NEVER played a game this unbalanced in my life

It seems on paper yeah...and based on how now no one wants to be soviet in multiplayer. Ive won every multiplayer as soviet (not saying much tbh)

You are probably very right for any type of competative play though. They need to fix it a bit (give russians something to crutch on and take away a german crutch) and then add in some more nations with the ability to mix nations per team...problem solved.

I really hope the game gets some multiplayer diversity and love.

Makes me really miss Company Of Heroes Online.

[Aristotle Full Throttle]

Nowhere Man if you cannot on your own develope tactics and strategy for how to beat German Players then look up guides or friend good Soviet Players to learn how to win because beating the majority of German Players is not that hard. As I said above most players do spamming which is easy to counter.

[Joikax]

Originally posted by Ranger_501st:

Nowhere Man if you cannot on your own develope tactics and strategy for how to beat German Players then look up guides or friend good Soviet Players to learn how to win because beating the majority of German Players is not that hard. As I said above most players do spamming which is easy to counter.

Easy to counter if you got enough time to react.

[Alex]

one panther vs 6 t-34. if you flank the panther wont have a chance

[Joikax]

If you only got a single Panther by the time ruskies get 6 t34's then you are a bad german player. besides... 6 T34's would mean that he has no other unit to effectivelly counter a pzgren spam. Try that next time

[Joikax]

I assume hes talking about AI spamming T34's. And if he is then they will eventually ram his only Panther. So any kind of strategy with that goes through the toilet. Flank and Adapt? unlikelly a good idea

[BumbleBee™]

I think people don't play soviets (ruskies) much cause they just don't like playing them. It has nothing to do with balance.I mean, if you are good you can win playing either side. I was playing a lot as american against germans in original COH, despite that they did not have good tanks etc I just don't get the same fun playing soviets, compare to playing americans in last COH.

[Prinz Eugen]

First I send out my engineers to capture 2~3 points and my conscripts will take over and later my Shock Troops will arrive and counter against the MG teams by using their smoke and grenades and by like 6 or 7 min SU-85 comes out and dominates the game