HEAT Rounds

[Emmental]

I think someone at Relic dropped the ball on:

a) What HEAT rounds are
b) The visual effect

High Explosive Anti Tank rounds are fired at extreme high velocity at close range (in WW2 anyway) to penetrate armour then detonate inside the enemy tank blowing it up from the inside out. It's kind of like a armour piercing shape charge.

Why do HEAT rounds in this game increase range when it should be shorter using this ammumition?

Why is the visual effect a dodgey little slow firing, arcing morter shell looking thing?

My opinion; it should be reduced range and zero damage if there's no penetrating hit, but if a penetrating hit is scored it will severely damage any tank including multiple criticals like severe engine damage and when the ability is used you get one shell and pick a target.

The amount of damage caused for gaming purposes would have to scale with the caliber of the gun being used so you can't spam smaller tanks for the same effect. For example a HEAT round from the average 75mm wouldn't be as devastating as the King Tigers 88mm.

The visual effect shouldn't be that different from a regular AP round, except it would dramatically slow down the longer the flight time. Maybe add a bright flash as the shell leaves the barrel instead of this magic shell which can suddenly arc upwards as it leaves the end of a 10 foot high velocity gun.

[rye]

the HVAP rounds for the vet M10 is a joke...I was expecting something awesome from that crappy little tank...but relic is doing better...cheers to them....over all...

[mustachewarfare]

If I recall corectly:
velocity of HEAT round has not much influence on its penetration capability. The size of warhead usually has a bigger impact on its penetration capability.

So the increase in range may represent the effective firing range (penetration wise not accuracy wise)

[F1aw1ess]

tldr

[YCWD]

Yeah I figured it would be a lower Pen round that does more damage. Odd that its an AP round. Not that German tanks have a problem penetrating anything really...seems kind of redundant.

[SURPRISE ATTACK!]

Originally posted by Beef Steak:

I think someone at Relic dropped the ball on:

a) What HEAT rounds are
b) The visual effect

High Explosive Anti Tank rounds are fired at extreme high velocity at close range (in WW2 anyway) to penetrate armour then detonate inside the enemy tank blowing it up from the inside out. It's kind of like a armour piercing shape charge.

Why do HEAT rounds in this game increase range when it should be shorter using this ammumition?

Why is the visual effect a dodgey little slow firing, arcing morter shell looking thing?

My opinion; it should be reduced range and zero damage if there's no penetrating hit, but if a penetrating hit is scored it will severely damage any tank including multiple criticals like severe engine damage and when the ability is used you get one shell and pick a target.

The amount of damage caused for gaming purposes would have to scale with the caliber of the gun being used so you can't spam smaller tanks for the same effect. For example a HEAT round from the average 75mm wouldn't be as devastating as the King Tigers 88mm.

The visual effect shouldn't be that different from a regular AP round, except it would dramatically slow down the longer the flight time. Maybe add a bright flash as the shell leaves the barrel instead of this magic shell which can suddenly arc upwards as it leaves the end of a 10 foot high velocity gun.

This is old but it bothered me so much that I need to reply :P

You're thinking of APCR, which was typically designed not to do serious damage by itself, but to hit sensitive internal components, blowing up the tank from the inside, such as the fuel tank or the magazine.

HEAT is completely different.

Originally posted by mustachewarfare:

If I recall corectly:
velocity of HEAT round has not much influence on its penetration capability. The size of warhead usually has a bigger impact on its penetration capability.

So the increase in range may represent the effective firing range (penetration wise not accuracy wise)

This is correct. HEAT works this way. When the HEAT shell impacts the side of the tank, a secondary explosion occurs inside the shell, and another projectile inside the shell is shot into the tank at point blank range from within the original shell fired from the tank.

As a result, with HEAT, the amount of armor is dependent on the shell itself, and is the same at all ranges, because technically the range is always 0. What does affect HEAT penetration, however, is the angle at which the shell impacts. |<--- perpendicular is obviously the best.

During the WW2 era, most HEAT shells fired out of tank guns were not high velocity shells. You can check the velocity of German Pzgr 40 shells(APCR) vs Gr.38(HEAT) rounds if you'd like. Hence, if you were to hit anything, the shell was typically lobbed(hence the coh2 animation).

OK, great, so what's the point of HEAT with respect to OKW? As you point out, it's not like OKW is lacking great tanks with great firepower.

The answer is very simple: to allow Pumas to deal with heavy allied armor.

[PeteSkTemplar]

pretty hilarious stuff. I dont claim to know all those terms because they it seems were generally the same.

to my knowledge there were basically 3 types of AT rounds in ww2. Apart from rigid full-caliber rounds, there were these:

HEAT - used the least. As in modern tanks, this round can be used at any range, because it keeps its penetrating power not in projectile speed (velocity) but in chemical energy that is stored until it hits something. It is used as a long range round, because speed-depending projectiles are yielding diminishing returns at longer range. Higher trajectory.

APHE, or armor piercing, high explosive. Today in tanks it is obsolete, while in some artillery pieces it is used today. Full caliber round with a small explosive filler to aid in penetration. Superior to solid armor piercing round. This was largely the standard AT ammo in most tanks. Reasonably accurate, reasonably efective back then.

Then there is the third kind of ammo. Germans called it hart kern, hardened core stuff. APCR etc, to my understanding similar designs. It can be understood as a precursor to sabots (without fin stabilization accuracy was 'great') What were those about ? A full calliber round, made of 2 parts. The outer shell of the round was made of light material, which lowered the weight of the projectile, allowing it to propel the projectile to a much higher speed. When impacting, the light material would usually be used to absorb the shock so as not to shatter the inside hardened piece, which was thinner, non-explosive. Armor piercing bullets also had subcaliber hardened steel core, meaning the shell impacted, the light weak outside material shattered, but hardened core was meant to punch through with a more concentrated force being applied to a smaller surface.

if my understanding is correct, then what you have is basically a sabot round, that travels with the projectile, doesnt discard until hitting the target, but the logic is the same, that a higher speed thinner harder core will have much better penetrating properties than then-standard cheap APHE. Generally in ww2 those hardened core rounds had accuracy issues, probably due to balance problems and them having low weight, meant their effectiveness was rapidly diminishing past certain range and those would fly anywhere except where it was aimed. Penetration tests were usually not made after 500 m because hit probability decreased and rounds were usually scarce.

zombie thread btw ....