What are good and bad matchups for each faction?

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

In 1v1 or team games.

My impression from low rank team games:

Soviets vs Ostheer = Ostheer favoured.
Similar playstyle and power level up untill mid-late game, Ostheer has better tank destroyers, panthers and better artillery allowing them to dominate late game. Also nondoctrinal elite infantry and infantry upgrades.

Soviets vs OKW = Somewhat equal.
OKW has sturmpioneers in early game, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥ anti mg tools. Soviets have way stronger mid game and weaker late game.

USF vs Ostheer = Strongly USF favoured.
USf has better infantry, better indirect fire, better light vehicles. USF does suffer from Elefants and Panthers due to low pen and health on their tanks and due to mines being locked behind doctrines or behind lieutenant and 20 fuel fragile vehicle, but they have advantage all the way before heavy armour rolls out.

USF vs OKW = Strongly USF favoured.
Same as Ostheer. Double bar rifles dominate infantry battles, USF light vehicles and sherman dominate mid game, USF does suffer in late game from Panthers and heavy TD that they cannot penetrate, but OKW needs to survive before that.

British vs Ostheer = Strongly Ostheer favoured.
British have no way to punish early MG spam (mortar pit is unreliable and hard to defend when you lost map control to MG spam), snipers bleed British dry. Static play remains hard to deal with even in late game due to poor artillery options Brits have, so they have to assault everything the manly way.

British vs OKW = British favoured.
Double Bren infantry sections dominate infantry engagments. OKW early anti mg tools are ♥♥♥♥♥♥, OKW cannot spam MGs of their own or build snipers or create pack walls and with no strong static play to oppose them, British roll OKW over with more cost efficient units.,

That's my take on matchups in low ranking team games. I wonder how are things in higher ranks and in 1v1 gamemode.

[ShodaN]

Depends on the players and the builds.

[Patrykblack7]

Originally posted by DarTH ShodaN:

Depends on the players and the builds.

And map

[DangI7Bobby]

Originally posted by DarTH ShodaN:

Depends on the players and the builds.

Basically this.

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Originally posted by DarTH ShodaN:

Depends on the players and the builds.

There are things present in all builds, and there are builds that shut down faction so hard it's fair to say that said faction has bad matchup.

For example: no matter the build UKF will suffer from Ostheer, be it Ostheer MGs, snipers or Osttruppen.

Also, surely there is an average style between maps, with one map design type being most common, eliminating the map factor and matchup comparison implies players being the same competent skill level.

[ShodaN]

Originally posted by ThilocMoths:

Originally posted by DarTH ShodaN:

Depends on the players and the builds.

There are things present in all builds, and there are builds that shut down faction so hard it's fair to say that said faction has bad matchup.

For example: no matter the build UKF will suffer from Ostheer, be it Ostheer MGs, snipers or Osttruppen.

How so? There are certain units that can be hard to deal with as some factions due to restrictions in one area that balance out benefits in another.

OKW for example as you said has no great MG counters early on. But they do have very strong aggressive early infantry that can take garrisons and push hard, while a very mobile capping unit can do the rest.

UKF has no mobile mortar to balance out their stationary potential. Against snipers they got the UC or can decide to go mobile with the AEC. Their infantry is expensive, but strong and gets upgrades. They suffer to Osttruppen only in cost efficiency with bad positioning.

Anyways. It is fair to say that there are specific units, which are harder to deal with as some faction, because of built in drawbacks. Likewise the built in benefits can be hard to deal with by others. Does that doom the whole matchup? No.

[DangI7Bobby]

Originally posted by ThilocMoths:

Originally posted by DarTH ShodaN:

Depends on the players and the builds.

For example: no matter the build UKF will suffer from Ostheer, be it Ostheer MGs, snipers or Osttruppen.

Its called adapting to the battlefield. UKF can go offensive build against Ostheer, that'll give them a challenge.

I really don't agree with your, favor this or that logic. I see it as all situation and adaptability of the player. If you stick to one build and not change it, you're going to get steamed rolled.

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Originally posted by DarTH ShodaN:

Originally posted by ThilocMoths:

There are things present in all builds, and there are builds that shut down faction so hard it's fair to say that said faction has bad matchup.

For example: no matter the build UKF will suffer from Ostheer, be it Ostheer MGs, snipers or Osttruppen.

How so? There are certain units that can be hard to deal with as some factions due to restrictions in one area that balance out benefits in another.

OKW for example as you said has no great MG counters early on. But they do have very strong aggressive early infantry that can take garrisons and push hard, while a very mobile capping unit can do the rest.

UKF has no mobile mortar to balance out their stationary potential. Against snipers they got the UC or can decide to go mobile with the AEC. Their infantry is expensive, but strong and gets upgrades. They suffer to Osttruppen only in cost efficiency with bad positioning.

Anyways. It is fair to say that there are specific units, which are harder to deal with as some faction, because of built in drawbacks. Likewise the built in benefits can be hard to deal with by others. Does that doom the whole matchup? No.

Fair point, but, as http://coh2chart.com shows there is and always been certains trends in how cetrain faction performs, be it thanks to meta, more skilled players or broken units like laser guided USF mortar. And if there is a trend for how faction performs in general surely there must be a trend on how factions perform vs each other. Sadly coh2charts do not provide that info, so I created this thread to see people's opinion on matchups to satisfy that curiosity, sadly all I got so far is "it's all up to how you play them" argument

[ShodaN]

Coh2chart doesn't really provide anything useful at all if you take statistics seriously. A rough estimate at best.

You can read this here for some more insight:
https://www.coh2.org/news/55039/coh2chart-and-its-worth

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Originally posted by DarTH ShodaN:

Coh2chart doesn't really provide anything useful at all if you take statistics seriously. A rough estimate at best.

You can read this here for some more insight:
https://www.coh2.org/news/55039/coh2chart-and-its-worth

Bad data is better than no data as far as satisfying curiosity is concerned.

[ShodaN]

Originally posted by ThilocMoths:

Originally posted by DarTH ShodaN:

Coh2chart doesn't really provide anything useful at all if you take statistics seriously. A rough estimate at best.

You can read this here for some more insight:
https://www.coh2.org/news/55039/coh2chart-and-its-worth

Bad data is better than no data as far as satisfying curiosity is concerned.

It's very much the other way around. Bad data can lead to horrible missinterpretation and is far worse than not commenting on it at all.

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Originally posted by DarTH ShodaN:

Originally posted by ThilocMoths:

Bad data is better than no data as far as satisfying curiosity is concerned.

It's very much the other way around. Bad data can lead to horrible missinterpretation and is far worse than not commenting on it at all.

If you are to make decisions based upon it or tell it to others as misinformation, than sure. But if you are intrested in any data even remotly correct for your own personal satisfaction, surely there is no harm in that

Besides, coh2chart isn't that bad, they have actual winrate data from Relic and that is what they are showing: wins and losses per faction. Jumping to conclusions about faction's strenghts based on that would be a poor choice, but it does show if faction is winning a lot or a little and you can interpret that based on your own experience to see why it might be the case.

[Tasty x3]

Mostly map depending I'd say, USF vs Ost in cqc is a win for USF same goes for Brits vs OKW etc. Ost and Brits are strongest on open maps.

[ShodaN]

Originally posted by ThilocMoths:

Besides, coh2chart isn't that bad, they have actual winrate data from Relic and that is what they are showing: wins and losses per faction. Jumping to conclusions about faction's strenghts based on that would be a poor choice, but it does show if faction is winning a lot or a little and you can interpret that based on your own experience to see why it might be the case.

Which would be all nice and fine if it wasn't for the matchmaking mechanism and the lack of community (hence sample) size.

The article shows it pretty well where the major flaws with it are and how the ELO system blurs the winrates.

[Inept]

OP is right, least for the brit side of things, an early sniper completely bleeds UKF dry and there is no coming back from it, UC isnt an easy counter either against a decent player its beyond useless at kiling snipers, 1 faust and its got engine damage, its useless at its role.

By the time your sniper comes out you are on the back foot, a decent sniper player will know to fire and relocate, and with that shot lowering your squad of 4 men now down to 3 you can't win against his grens.

Not to mention by the time your sniper is out, the 222 is getting built and then its a whole other story with the 222 spam.

Constantly on the back foot, its an uphill battle all the way.

[ShodaN]

Originally posted by Latch:

OP is right, least for the brit side of things, an early sniper completely bleeds UKF dry and there is no coming back from it, UC isnt an easy counter either against a decent player its beyond useless at kiling snipers, 1 faust and its got engine damage, its useless at its role.

As if restricting the sniper to staying savely behind grens and forcing those grens to stick to that sniper with only getting one unit is not a considerable counter.

This is exactly what I am saying:
Some factions have only indirect ways to counter certain things. Like OKW that has to use aggressive early inf to prevent strong garrisons being used against them or UKF getting a UC to prevent free sniper play.