Penals vs Conscripts?

[ApocalypseMeow]

Which do I go for?

And for those who say Conscripts: PPsh or Extra man?

[ShodaN]

Conscripts - extra man upgrade. The whole point is that they will become a better scaling, more versatile option like that. PPSHs would just be a stopgap upgrade that adds some firepower earlier, but ultimately falls short of what the other one provides.

Same goes for Penals in general. They give you considerable early to mid game firepower, but as a unit and their respective builds as a whole will significantly drop in performance in the lategame compared to veteran 7 men Conscripts fighting in a well rounded combined arms army.

[Felinewolfie]

Originally posted by ApocalypseMeow:

Which do I go for?

And for those who say Conscripts: PPsh or Extra man?

- PPSH : Zero range power (Where you get raped)
- SVT40 : Medium short range power.
- 7 man ; Long range power + tougher + x2 xp + cheaper reinforce
(Also doesn't need a commander, but loses last hv weapon slot)

[-Eon-Tarkus]

penals are good for pushing, Conscripts are good for reinforcing and over powering pushes via numbers, but mid to late go penals, or special infantry. as late game fresh conscripts are just cannon fodder.

[Nightshade878]

Conscripts. They're versatile, and can be used to reinforce other squads or weapon crews in the field.

As for PPsH or Extra Man, thats a decision that depends on whats going on in the match, who youre facing, what theyre using, and even the map itself.

Generally though as a rule of thumb, on Open maps I would avoid the PPsH upgrade.

[76561199222553394]

ppsh oorah is good against JLI (jaeger lights) according to tightrope but don't put it on all your cons otherwise you'll fall behind late game from bleed unless your tank micro is good.

[kampfer91]

Meh , conscript extra man upgrade is a waste , even with 1 more single model you can't beat the conscript armed with SVT , or any elite infantry arm with LMG from other faction , just for the sake of having more presence on the field in the late game when rocket vehicle and anti-blob tank lurking around .
By getting that upgrade you are denying yourself a sweet looking LMG or shreck lying on the floor.

The lacking of a MG or AT gun during the opening stage can be detrimental but penal along with scout car promote a more aggressive play and during this stage the penal literally can and will beat any starter infantry except for call in elite infantry .

[Crystal meth enthusiast]

Originally posted by kampfer91:

Meh , conscript extra man upgrade is a waste , even with 1 more single model you can't beat the conscript armed with SVT , or any elite infantry arm with LMG from other faction , just for the sake of having more presence on the field in the late game when rocket vehicle and anti-blob tank lurking around .
By getting that upgrade you are denying yourself a sweet looking LMG or shreck lying on the floor.

The lacking of a MG or AT gun during the opening stage can be detrimental but penal along with scout car promote a more aggressive play and during this stage the penal literally can and will beat any starter infantry except for call in elite infantry .

I want to mention it is not a "+1 model", It is buff for every model that includes fire rate, exp gain, price reduction. For a infantry that dies very fast it is more useful than a weapon, because they have -50% accuracy to any weapon. So they could suck ))

[Crystal meth enthusiast]

Penals a better at everything, and at vet 3 compete with Obers at close and mid ranges.
It depends on army build, it is not as simple as "better" or "worse".

[5972314678]

Another benefit to the 7 man squad conscripts upgrade. If you decide to crew two abandoned weapons you can do this without losing your whole 6 man conscript squad.

[Graephen]

Originally posted by Felinewolfie:

Originally posted by ApocalypseMeow:

Which do I go for?

And for those who say Conscripts: PPsh or Extra man?

- PPSH : Zero range power (Where you get raped)
- SVT40 : Medium short range power.
- 7 man ; Long range power + tougher + x2 xp + cheaper reinforce
(Also doesn't need a commander, but loses last hv weapon slot)

SVT i'd argue is medium-long and 7 man cons still can't beat upgraded Osttruppen cover to cover. 7-man cons are medium range beasts and will absolutely annihilate everything they can and will live even through Sturmtiger hits.

Massed PPSH is medium range too, dat movement accuracy is broken

[DROPbear]

the 7 men upgrade for conscript is a huge waste and it lock out all of the weapon slots. it still lose to almost everything

you go for conscripts early build, if you have a ppsh/svt upgrade. or you need disposable squad to cap vp late game.

7 men squad is some of the best solution in stealing crew weapon and VP especially late game. other than that they are pretty much useless

[Graephen]

Originally posted by DROPbear:

7 men squad is some of the best solution in stealing crew weapon and VP especially late game. other than that they are pretty much useless

They are only useless against multiple PG squads or Volks with MP44, other than that, they are great if you OORAH to close range.

[DROPbear]

Originally posted by Crystal meth enthusiast:

Originally posted by kampfer91:

Meh , conscript extra man upgrade is a waste , even with 1 more single model you can't beat the conscript armed with SVT , or any elite infantry arm with LMG from other faction , just for the sake of having more presence on the field in the late game when rocket vehicle and anti-blob tank lurking around .
By getting that upgrade you are denying yourself a sweet looking LMG or shreck lying on the floor.

The lacking of a MG or AT gun during the opening stage can be detrimental but penal along with scout car promote a more aggressive play and during this stage the penal literally can and will beat any starter infantry except for call in elite infantry .

I want to mention it is not a "+1 model", It is buff for every model that includes fire rate, exp gain, price reduction. For a infantry that dies very fast it is more useful than a weapon, because they have -50% accuracy to any weapon. So they could suck ))

actually no. ROF fire buff only applies in cover and it add +20% which is negligible especially late game. what you looking for for the 7men upgrade is the exp gain to quickly vet 3 and make them target size of 0.6. So the idea is that you should only upgrade 7men for fresh replacement cons squad so they could soakup more axis terminator infantry high dps weapons. which its kinda worthless, since allies have better infantry like vet 3 5men infantry section has a target size of 0.66 and can carry 2 LMG bren.


so conclusion,
if the squad upgraded with PPSH, SVT will just out DPS 7 men squad in cover.

if con squad have a stolen LMG42/LMG36, it will out DPS PPSH,SVT

[ShodaN]

Originally posted by DROPbear:

actually no. ROF fire buff only applies in cover and it add +20% which is negligible especially late game.

20% to weapon cooldown is like a very common veterancy bonus. On top of existing ones.

Not to mention your info is false. The effects are:

Increases squad size by 1.
Reduces model reinforce cost to 18 manpower.
Increases veterancy gain by 20%.
-30% weapon cooldown, when unit is in cover.

So yeah, "negligible". Of course.

[Glorious Comrade]

conscript with 7 men, because their job is to reinforce other squads early game, once they have 7 men, they are better at every thing. better anti infantry, better meat shield to run in and snare, they can pick up 2 dropped weapons emplacement and still have 1 model left to run home. or they can reinforce an 1 man model squad to full strength and still have 1 model left to run home.

I will use Rifle Guard to do penal's job, because rifle guard comes with PTSR equipped.