Wehrmacht feels boring.

[BANE]

All wehr commanders are crappy and boring. With soviets you have lots of fun stuff like kv8, shocktroops, kv1, kv2, is2, shermans, isu152, high cal mortars and arties, and more and more, and what do you have on wehrmacht? Lets see, doesnt even matter cause main game plan is getting panther soon as you can, what else do we have? Tiger and Ferdinand, but it so late it just wont be even used, and yet the panthers are more cost efficient.

So maybe we got some crazyazz troops to get some fun? Uh no, ostruppen and sturmgrenediere are fine, but cant compare to ie shocktroops, and you will have to sacrifice tank late-game for it cause there is no ostruppen or sturhmgrenadiers commander with things like scope, commander tank, recon, or literally anything good for panzer late game. Folks, this is focked up.

TLDR : I know that being not so dependant on your commander can be a plus, but on the con it makes entire gameplay generic, repeatable and boring. Make wehrmacht great again.

[Viljami32]

I played over 700 hours of Coh 1. There axis was fun :/

[76561188078797539]

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

Seriously, why do you have to go to this full idiotic level of thinking here?

Well, since your "argument" is

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

Folks. You dont get me, maybe you aint playing wehr long enough.

Guess what, people who have played "long enough" will still disagree with you.

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

Oh yeah, cause its so hard to play aggressive with fastest clowncar in game. Show me aggressive play with wehr and teach me something new.

I could if I cared to, because you absolutely can be aggressive with Ostheer, even without AsGrens.

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

They pop out without any eq, so if you are about to pay 340mp to die from some centurion or any inf with smgs then you will surely surprise your enemy. But ok, lets say that they'd pop out and nade some wounded mg down, you will be some mp ahead in this encounter if you dont die but your enemy wont repeat this mistake from now on. Stormtroops are less effective then panals and more expensive and yet they are from doctrine, Im glad that you pointed it out.

Can't be responsible for your inability to utilize ambient building spawning to your advantage.

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

That mortar track has a range of a focking mg,

I didn't know MGs could shoot at 106 range.

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

I dont have the british faction so idk about officer, but never felt like some crappy officer was my main problem in any 3v3 or 4v4 when playing soviets.

Yet you're clearly an expert on them since you know how they play so well. I'm confused /s

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

Its nice you pointed out recon, look how crappy this 4 doctrines are, no grenadiers with mp40, no osttrupen, no repair bunkeers, no smoke bombing, its like almost every wehr doctrines is about one good thing and the rest is crap, how can you compare it to a commander that has alltogether ie kv1, shock troops, recon, hurra, b4, there are some poor doctrines on soviets too but there are also pure gold ones like ie tank hunters, all things in it goes together and supports each other and this is how it supposed to be on every doctrine. In example on wehr you cant give ptrs to the basic grenadiers, you cant give them smg, you cant give them repair skill etc etc, in every doctrine they will be just the same useless meat.

*engage Fry meme* "Not sure if trolling, or genuinely this clueless"

You want to tell me which "four doctrines" are so crappy?

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

Speaking of delusional, panzerwerfer is the best option to non-doctrinal wipes for wehr and NOT the brummbar.

If you want your wipes every other five minutes, sure.

I'd rather stick with consistent pressure and wipes from Brummbar.

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

Doctrinal stug has same firepower and cost half of brummbar,

First of all, it's doctrinal on one (or two, don't have them all) commanders. Locks you out of a lot of possibilities that Brummbar does not.

Secondly, are you smoking something, or just talking out of your ass now?

Brummbar is 160 damage in 6 area radius.
StuG E is 120 in 0.5 area radius.

StuG's AoE damage starts dropping at .125 distance from the center of explosion, and drops very fast to measly 38.40 damage at 0.175 distance from the center.

Brummbar, meanwhile, keeps its AoE at over 120 damage up to 1.6 distance, and still does over 100 damage at 1.8 distance.

They are nowhere near comparable.

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

you must be out of your damn mind to go for brummbar instead of panther.

Why would I go for a panther when I need to deal with infantry?

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

When enemy is blobbing hard you do the panzerwerfer, long after that when you have some werfers and panthers then you can sometimes support it with brummbar and thats it, all I see lately in wehr meta is panthers, panthers, panthers, werfers, werfers, no brummbar.

Maybe because until there are tanks on the field, you get at least one Panther anyway?

So... let me get it straight. You're telling me that because you aren't using Brummbar for what it is designed to do (kill infantry in armor-light environment), it's a crap unit despite its massive superiority over StuG's wipe capacity? Ok.

[BANE]

Brummbar is crap because when anybody will see such high fuel commitment to anty-inf they will put all their fuel in well-rounded tanks like t3485 and its a gg, if you dont understand this than I doubt in your aggressive wehr skills, you cant be aggressive with brummbar lol, it has no turret you dummy, you have to protect it even from penals(!), from t34s, from ATs and such. Brummbar is just an exchange of one issue for the other, you are just buying time with it but your execution is even more sure thing now.

Fuel in late game is everything. But if you take for en example kv8 instead of brumcrap then it changes a lot mate, kv8 wins 1v1 vs ATs and vs lots of other stuff that brummcrap doesnt, it has a turret, you dont have to pay so much attention to flanks and you can be very agressive with it, also flamethrowers are the most stable dmg in the game cause you almost completely dont care about RNG, while Brummbar need a lot of luck to wipe moving squads.

Go play with your brummbar and with stug e, You wont get more than 20-15 kills on your brummbar mostly, same for stug e, so its no difference except stug is sooner, its faster and it cost less. With KV8 once I had about 60 kills while charging on enemy base and it won a game for me, name one wehr tank that is able to do that? Brummbar? Dont even joke mate, it wont even win against one AT gun and penals, especially on hills, kv8 doesnt care about terrain.

Every doctrine on wehrmacht without asGrens or Ostruppen is crappy as hell, because garbage squeeshy grens are anti-nothing and can be killed in seconds by some rangers which has SMGs and AT (anti-inf and anti-tank vs anti-nothing sounds fair right?) They lose to penals, to guards, to rifleman, they lose to everything. Why wehr have not a single cool unit like rangers or guards huh? Yeah I know conscripts are weak too, but they can ie repair tanks and can be equipped with smgs. And before you will try to sell me that crap about how well scaled and balanced grens are, go smash some wall with your head it might help you, grens with lmg have to be STATIC, means you cant be aggressive with it, means you will be unwillingly having sexual encounters with mortars and nades all the time etc. Sure, Ostruppen is cheap and weak too, but they cost less and they have passive bonus to fight in cover so at least they can fight against units like rifleman.

There is no doctrine with recon and asGrens or ostruppen. The things at doctrines with recon are mostly useless, ie scopes and recon together, gj, cause I need scopes so much when I use recon, but there is no scopes on doctrines with asGrens or Ostruppen either!
Dont you see it? Most wehr doctrines are useless, ie another one with recon - 3 types of bombing runs, like you will have the ammo for all that lol. Its a bad focking joke. Look how soviet doctrines are built with things that supports each other, if you cant see the difference than you have to be simply lying, cause you like beating wehr with no fight.

The only thing I can agree with you is that panzerwerfer isnt a decent wipe option, at least not the thing that wehr players deserve. You are damn right I dont want my wipes every five minutes, I want my wipes every minute like Britts or OKW got with the OP units like avre or jagdtiger, or at least something like that sherman with rocket-blinding strike, again why wehrmacht got nothing like that huh?

[Obamenau]

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

Brummbar is crap because when anybody will see such high fuel commitment to anty-inf they will put all their fuel in well-rounded tanks like t3485 and its a gg, if you dont understand this than I doubt in your aggressive wehr skills, you cant be aggressive with brummbar lol, it has no turret you dummy, you have to protect it even from penals(!), from t34s, from ATs and such. Brummbar is just an exchange of one issue for the other, you are just buying time with it but your execution is even more sure thing now.

Fuel in late game is everything. But if you take for en example kv8 instead of brumcrap then it changes a lot mate, kv8 wins 1v1 vs ATs and vs lots of other stuff that brummcrap doesnt, it has a turret, you dont have to pay so much attention to flanks and you can be very agressive with it, also flamethrowers are the most stable dmg in the game cause you almost completely dont care about RNG, while Brummbar need a lot of luck to wipe moving squads.

Go play with your brummbar and with stug e, You wont get more than 20-15 kills on your brummbar mostly, same for stug e, so its no difference except stug is sooner, its faster and it cost less. With KV8 once I had about 60 kills while charging on enemy base and it won a game for me, name one wehr tank that is able to do that? Brummbar? Dont even joke mate, it wont even win against one AT gun and penals, especially on hills, kv8 doesnt care about terrain.

Lol what even.
Okay ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you dont know the brummbärs secret: attack ground.
With AG the brummbär can fire pinpoint accurate shots, and is not limited by its sight range. You can send shells right into the middle of squads, you can take out team weapons from behind obstacles and in general you can use the Brummbär form a much safer distance.
Ive gone 100+ kills with a single brummbär in teamgames. With AG micro its a devastating unit.

Of course you have to make sure your AT is covered first. Just get 1-2 paks and youll be safe untill you can get a panther.

[glythe]

After nearly 3000 hours of playing this game I can say that the balance has gone to hell and back so many times.

Ostheer used to be very exciting. In the past it had doctrine choices that acted as trumps to other commander choices. The old balance of very strong doctrine units made the game exciting because it was like a game of chess deciding when to pick a doctrine. There are even game start tips mentioning this game aspect.

Grenadiers once had the option to use both lmgs and g43s at the same time with a g43 commander. After very expensive upgrades you could counter shock troops that were crazy strong with no upgrades. Grenadiers are currently one of the most fragile units that contributes to end tier battles. Their medic system is beyond antiquated and the medkit upgrade should be like the brits (permanent toggle option). Grenadiers are further devalued by so many squads that can be bigger. If you get the commander option that lets you increase squad size then you can't buy the lmg..... what nonsense is that!

The elefant had amazing armor and hard countered tank destroyers. You were forced to use more AT guns and infantry based options or artillery. Now it is a complete joke and the front is autopenetrated by just about everything. Never mind that the unit was meant to be flanked and killed very easily.

The flame half track used to have the same armor as the soviet half track (which is pretty much immune to small arms fire). Due to Germans having reduced squad sizes and not being able to increase squad size via conscript abilities the half track was always essential to being able to fight off superior allied infantry with equal numbers on the offensive.


The ostheer mortar used to be really amazing and was incredibly accurate. Now it sucks. Likewise the HMG used to be incredibly strong before it got the rusty swivel nerf. The MG42 is proportionally the least nerfed thing in the Ostheer playbook but it costs more MP than it used to so it essentially got nerfed again.


The regular tiger tank used to bounce between 2/3 of hits from the soviet AT gun. It had tons of health and was very hard to kill from the front. Now it is a joke to kill. This tank forced the enemy to pick an IS-2 commander to kill it or required the sneakiest use of mines with at grenades and maybe satchel charges too. This made sense from a balance standpoint because the soviets could walk all over the Germans (don't make me link the mg42 vs backwards Maxim video).


Panzergrenadiers used to be able to yolo up to enemy tanks in groups of two and squash them (infantry screens prevented this). The schrecks were nerfed over and over again while allied AT weapons kept getting better. They really aren't even worth using now unless you are playing OKW and use one specific commander. Panzergrenadiers cost too much and lost their bullet evasion that made them viable.


The german sniper used to have a faster rate of fire to counter for the fact that he faced up against squads with more people on the enemy team. That got nerfed to oblivion too.


The doctrine P4 command tank used to buff itself and everything around it. Now it is much easier to kill and still cant kill enemy tanks or really kill enemy infantry very well with its derp gun.

Bunkers used to have a ton of health and spot for themselves. Now they are a meme that works vs the ai and bad players.


I could go on but the point is that everything that used to be jaw droppingly awesome about the Ostheer faction is completely ruined. And every new faction added to the game always got a mechanic that made the ostheer feel left behind (forward retreat point, one time purchase healing medics, weapon racks, meaningful defensive forward buildings that make the bunker look like a joke).

[Midare-Saki]

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

Brummbar is crap because when anybody will see such high fuel commitment to anty-inf they will put all their fuel in well-rounded tanks like t3485 and its a gg, if you dont understand this than I doubt in your aggressive wehr skills, you cant be aggressive with brummbar lol, it has no turret you dummy, you have to protect it even from penals(!), from t34s, from ATs and such. Brummbar is just an exchange of one issue for the other, you are just buying time with it but your execution is even more sure thing now.

Fuel in late game is everything. But if you take for en example kv8 instead of brumcrap then it changes a lot mate, kv8 wins 1v1 vs ATs and vs lots of other stuff that brummcrap doesnt, it has a turret, you dont have to pay so much attention to flanks and you can be very agressive with it, also flamethrowers are the most stable dmg in the game cause you almost completely dont care about RNG, while Brummbar need a lot of luck to wipe moving squads.

Go play with your brummbar and with stug e, You wont get more than 20-15 kills on your brummbar mostly, same for stug e, so its no difference except stug is sooner, its faster and it cost less. With KV8 once I had about 60 kills while charging on enemy base and it won a game for me, name one wehr tank that is able to do that? Brummbar? Dont even joke mate, it wont even win against one AT gun and penals, especially on hills, kv8 doesnt care about terrain.

Every doctrine on wehrmacht without asGrens or Ostruppen is crappy as hell, because garbage squeeshy grens are anti-nothing and can be killed in seconds by some rangers which has SMGs and AT (anti-inf and anti-tank vs anti-nothing sounds fair right?) They lose to penals, to guards, to rifleman, they lose to everything. Why wehr have not a single cool unit like rangers or guards huh? Yeah I know conscripts are weak too, but they can ie repair tanks and can be equipped with smgs. And before you will try to sell me that crap about how well scaled and balanced grens are, go smash some wall with your head it might help you, grens with lmg have to be STATIC, means you cant be aggressive with it, means you will be unwillingly having sexual encounters with mortars and nades all the time etc. Sure, Ostruppen is cheap and weak too, but they cost less and they have passive bonus to fight in cover so at least they can fight against units like rifleman.

There is no doctrine with recon and asGrens or ostruppen. The things at doctrines with recon are mostly useless, ie scopes and recon together, gj, cause I need scopes so much when I use recon, but there is no scopes on doctrines with asGrens or Ostruppen either!
Dont you see it? Most wehr doctrines are useless, ie another one with recon - 3 types of bombing runs, like you will have the ammo for all that lol. Its a bad focking joke. Look how soviet doctrines are built with things that supports each other, if you cant see the difference than you have to be simply lying, cause you like beating wehr with no fight.

The only thing I can agree with you is that panzerwerfer isnt a decent wipe option, at least not the thing that wehr players deserve. You are damn right I dont want my wipes every five minutes, I want my wipes every minute like Britts or OKW got with the OP units like avre or jagdtiger, or at least something like that sherman with rocket-blinding strike, again why wehrmacht got nothing like that huh?

unfortunately when kv8s and brummbars come out usually i see people are unprepared

[Obamenau]

Ursprungligen skrivet av glythe:

Grenadiers once had the option to use both lmgs and g43s at the same time with a g43 commander. After very expensive upgrades you could counter shock troops

The elefant had amazing armor and hard countered tank destroyers.

The ostheer mortar used to be really amazing and was incredibly accurate.

The regular tiger tank used to bounce between 2/3 of hits from the soviet AT gun. It had tons of health and was very hard to kill from the front. This tank forced the enemy to pick an IS-2 commander to kill it

Panzergrenadiers used to be able to yolo up to enemy tanks in groups of two and squash them

The german sniper used to have a faster rate of fire t

The doctrine P4 command tank used to buff itself and everything around it.

Bunkers used to have a ton of health and spot for themselves. N

"Why is my old OP stuff not OP anymore"

[76561198051514398]

Ursprungligen skrivet av buzzy:

Look germans didint have as much resuourses as soveits because amercia gave the soviets the stuff and german didint have much left, also they don't need much because there defenses are really good!!!

Exactly.

[BANE]

Ursprungligen skrivet av glythe:

The regular tiger tank used to bounce between 2/3 of hits from the soviet AT gun. It had tons of health and was very hard to kill from the front. Now it is a joke to kill. This tank forced the enemy to pick an IS-2 commander to kill it or required the sneakiest use of mines with at grenades and maybe satchel charges too. This made sense from a balance standpoint because the soviets could walk all over the Germans (don't make me link the mg42 vs backwards Maxim video).

If I remember good, the Tiger was estimated to the dust and rust when the Brits came up, because Tiger is based on the old fashion sustained dmg + armor while Brit can nuke it down with rocket firefly and avre, with this 2 skills even frontally the mighty ace tiger is down to about 20% hp in split seconds and its imba AF. Then they did even reduced its armor because american TDs wasnt ripping it apart good enough with their nuke combos, but I wasnt even using Tiger anymore at this point.

Nice to meet you man, I feel exactly the same about Ostheer now, lack of fun, lack of depth. Thank you for your post. Best regards.

[Obamenau]

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

Ursprungligen skrivet av glythe:

The regular tiger tank used to bounce between 2/3 of hits from the soviet AT gun. It had tons of health and was very hard to kill from the front. Now it is a joke to kill. This tank forced the enemy to pick an IS-2 commander to kill it or required the sneakiest use of mines with at grenades and maybe satchel charges too. This made sense from a balance standpoint because the soviets could walk all over the Germans (don't make me link the mg42 vs backwards Maxim video).

If I remember good, the Tiger was estimated to the dust and rust when the Brits came up, because Tiger is based on the old fashion sustained dmg + armor while Brit can nuke it down with rocket firefly and avre, with this 2 skills even frontally the mighty ace tiger is down to about 20% hp in split seconds and its imba AF. Then they did even reduced its armor because american TDs wasnt ripping it apart good enough with their nuke combos, but I wasnt even using Tiger anymore at this point.

Nice to meet you man, I feel exactly the same about Ostheer now, lack of fun, lack of depth. Thank you for your post. Best regards.

Boo hoo getting 200+ fuel doesnt instantly win you the game anymore.

And I doubt you ever seriously used the tiger Ace. It easily the best tank ingame thanks to ist abilities. With spearhead you can counter tank destroyers, and blitz gives you more leeway in what you can do. Not to mention self- repair
Oh but you cant just drive it at the enemy at win. Ok I guess allies are OP.

And Leave it to axis fanboys to get their tanks hit by AVRE shots and complain that allies are OP.

[tomasoltis]

good ole times - TA had 50% damage reduction (2x hp) and dealt 320 damage per shot. Consistently 1-2 shotting AT guns. There were some downsides but its not fun when it isnt I win button the way it used to be.

heavy tanks lost much of their value with long ranged turreted TDs. Soviet IS-2 was cost-efficiently countered by PV so if PaK wasnt your thing, you had pantthers anyway.

100 range units without limit were imba, not tigers or is2s.

[BANE]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Mindstream:

Boo hoo getting 200+ fuel doesnt instantly win you the game anymore.

And I doubt you ever seriously used the tiger Ace. It easily the best tank ingame thanks to ist abilities. With spearhead you can counter tank destroyers, and blitz gives you more leeway in what you can do. Not to mention self- repair
Oh but you cant just drive it at the enemy at win. Ok I guess allies are OP.

And Leave it to axis fanboys to get their tanks hit by AVRE shots and complain that allies are OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eisl5dZO81o&feature=youtu.be

As you can see in 32min I was using Tiger Ace and I was brought down to 60% hp and stunned just by ff rockets and then to reduced to 5% hp by one avre shot, and it was 2 years ago, when Tiger Ace was lot stronger. You seem kinda delusional to me, these are plain facts.
Since OKW was nerfed hard lately, you point it right cause only allies are OP now.
They are biasing newer fractions to make ppl buy it, oldest trick in the book.

[tomasoltis]

so are you saying they are boring or underpowered ?
okw was nerfed hard lately ?
Are you claiming Soviets are OP ? They arent the newer faction btw, okw, usf, british in general do have cooler stuff most of the time.

M-42 is really cool...

[Obamenau]

Ursprungligen skrivet av _polishDeathCamping:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Mindstream:

Boo hoo getting 200+ fuel doesnt instantly win you the game anymore.

And I doubt you ever seriously used the tiger Ace. It easily the best tank ingame thanks to ist abilities. With spearhead you can counter tank destroyers, and blitz gives you more leeway in what you can do. Not to mention self- repair
Oh but you cant just drive it at the enemy at win. Ok I guess allies are OP.

And Leave it to axis fanboys to get their tanks hit by AVRE shots and complain that allies are OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eisl5dZO81o&feature=youtu.be

As you can see in 32min I was using Tiger Ace and I was brought down to 60% hp and stunned just by ff rockets and then to reduced to 5% hp by one avre shot, and it was 2 years ago, when Tiger Ace was lot stronger. You seem kinda delusional to me, these are plain facts.
Since OKW was nerfed hard lately, you point it right cause only allies are OP now.
They are biasing newer fractions to make ppl buy it, oldest trick in the book.

So you drive your tiger into 2 tanks and get hit by 2 long cool down abilities and still survive? In the end your ace gets brought down by a comet, firefly and AVRE ( almost 500 fuel cost).
What exactly is the issue here

Also the last doc faction the brits released like 3 or 4 years ago. Your logic doenst make any sense


Allies OP my rss. Git gud

[BANE]

Ursprungligen skrivet av tomasoltis:

so are you saying they are boring or underpowered ?
okw was nerfed hard lately ?
Are you claiming Soviets are OP ? They arent the newer faction btw, okw, usf, british in general do have cooler stuff most of the time.

M-42 is really cool...

And why cant they be boring and underpowered same time?
Ostheer arent underpowered if you play it perfectly, but its less forgiving and less flexible then soviets, more defensive, so also less fun to play.

Idk if soviets are OP, but some of their doctrines like the tank hunters are combined waay bettter than anything you can find on the axis right now Brits and USA are OP for sure if you look from the ostheer perspective, they have lots of new mechanics that just left wehrmacht far behind.

And yeah OKW was nerfed with last patches, few streamers like helpinghans stopped playing it in favor of allied factions. Other coh2 streamer Skippy plays mostly soviets and its even fun to watch, but I cant name a streamer playing ostheer now, guess it would be to boring, no spectacular wipes, no high cal arties, no tanks with nuking skills or stuns, no powerful air support, no shocktroops charging in like crazy, no penals flanking to get massive satchel, just you and your slowly paced sustained damage. Im getting sleepy just from thinking about it.