Shock troops early game

[Uniquez]

Shock troops should be allowed to be bought once the game starts not until when you reach level 2. The problem is when I use my conscripts an okw player can counter my conscripts with sturmpioneers(depending on the map)and I get pushed hard back near my base while the okw player captures points. I should be allowed to counter the sturmpioneers with my shock troops from the start not when the game is already 5 minutes in and my opponent has my more resources than me.

[Le Negev]

l2p.
All elite infantry units have timing of 2 or 3 CPs. No reason to get them at 1 CP.

[Crumb]

Nah you just gotta keep your distance and make sure the first engagement with sturms isn't at close range. Also if they charge you kite them and engage with engi+con, don't ever try to stand toe to toe with sturms with one squad unless its from long range. If you break even with a sturm sqaud early game thats a good trade.

[BobOnix]

shock troops are probably the most difficult inf for OKW to fight against, they could drop sturmpio's in about 8 seconds or less or remove 2 models before sturms could even get on top of you (which they need to do)

shocks quite literally need to pinned unless OKW has LMG obers (for the max range DPS) and Pfus upgraded for close up accuracy

so you want basically a brick wall whilst your opponent has a feather.

you also get an early MG thats how you hard counter Pio's early, or any OKW unit, early game.

[Le Negev]

Originally posted by BOBO:

shock troops are probably the most difficult inf for OKW to fight against, they could drop sturmpio's in about 8 seconds or less or remove 2 models before sturms could even get on top of you (which they need to do)

shocks quite literally need to pinned unless OKW has LMG obers (for the max range DPS) and Pfus upgraded for close up accuracy

so you want basically a brick wall whilst your opponent has a feather.

you also get an early MG thats how you hard counter Pio's early, or any OKW unit, early game.

It's almost as if anti infantry specialists are effective againts infantry in close quaters!

[Felinewolfie]

Originally posted by PotatoScav:

Originally posted by Uniquez:

Shock troops should be allowed to be bought once the game starts not until when you reach level 2. The problem is when I use my conscripts an okw player can counter my conscripts with sturmpioneers(depending on the map)and I get pushed hard back near my base while the okw player captures points. I should be allowed to counter the sturmpioneers with my shock troops from the start not when the game is already 5 minutes in and my opponent has my more resources than me.

Yes !!! also king tiger for okw at start , its impossible to get vet 5

:) :) :) :)

[Felinewolfie]

Originally posted by Le Negev:

Originally posted by BOBO:

shock troops are probably the most difficult inf for OKW to fight against, they could drop sturmpio's in about 8 seconds or less or remove 2 models before sturms could even get on top of you (which they need to do)

shocks quite literally need to pinned unless OKW has LMG obers (for the max range DPS) and Pfus upgraded for close up accuracy

so you want basically a brick wall whilst your opponent has a feather.

you also get an early MG thats how you hard counter Pio's early, or any OKW unit, early game.

It's almost as if anti infantry specialists are effective againts infantry in close quaters!

I find that odd ?!

[Harris]

There's a dedicated thread about sturmpios and their weaknesses a couple of pages ago, if you're interested.

Long story short:

1) Sturmpios only good at close range, so keep them at bay, stay in cover, use mgs which OKW doesn't get for a while (or go T1 and counter with penals or even a sniper).

2) Sturmpios are costly to get and reinforce, so inflicting the most damage possible to them will cause a large manpower drain to OKW, much more impactful than a loss of some conscripts for you.

3) If you killed a unit of sturmpios outright, you're very unlikely to see them again - the window when they shine is pretty small, and they cost a lot, so OKW player will go for volks/doctrinal inf instead.

[Almost Perfect]

Originally posted by Harris:

There's a dedicated thread about sturmpios and their weaknesses a couple of pages ago, if you're interested.

Long story short:



2) Sturmpios are costly to get and reinforce, so inflicting the most damage possible to them will cause a large manpower drain to OKW, much more impactful than a loss of some conscripts for you.

This isn't really true. They wreck rifle units at close range but they have STG44s and not MP40s so therefore in a mid range cover fight, from a building or in green cover, with a lower received accuracy stat (could be wrong) they will probably also win vs Conscripts. Maybe not Infantry sections.

The retreat button is how you beat Sturmpios in the first few minutes. Any sort of numerical advantage esp. with range and cover beats Sturms, because they can only focus one unit and that problem isn't really solved for the OKW player by building more Sturms. 3 Sturms vs 4 conscripts and an Engineer with a flamethrower is not a good day for Hitler and Germany.

[Nubby Gubs]

Originally posted by About Those Rats...:

Originally posted by Harris:

There's a dedicated thread about sturmpios and their weaknesses a couple of pages ago, if you're interested.

Long story short:



2) Sturmpios are costly to get and reinforce, so inflicting the most damage possible to them will cause a large manpower drain to OKW, much more impactful than a loss of some conscripts for you.

This isn't really true. They wreck rifle units at close range but they have STG44s and not MP40s so therefore in a mid range cover fight, from a building or in green cover, with a lower received accuracy stat (could be wrong) they will probably also win vs Conscripts. Maybe not Infantry sections.

The retreat button is how you beat Sturmpios in the first few minutes. Any sort of numerical advantage esp. with range and cover beats Sturms, because they can only focus one unit and that problem isn't really solved for the OKW player by building more Sturms. 3 Sturms vs 4 conscripts and an Engineer with a flamethrower is not a good day for Hitler and Germany.

from my personal experience, conscripts vs sturms in mid range cover is pretty even. squads like penals, riflemen, and infantry sections i find nearly always win at mid range against sturms. svt conscripts also can win in mid range.

theyre not BAD at mid range, they can do damage. however, in my experience (and looking at the stats) they have an accuracy drop off more significant than units such as panzergrens who also wield stgs. however, their accuracy/dps within 3 meters is the highest of any unit wielding stgs. what this means is that theyre best used as a squad who flank distracted troops. in most cases, a competent player wont sit their sturmpio at mid range, but instead as a flank troop. so, if OP were to engage a sturmpio at mid range and force an engagement, it could be the best case scenario for them if theyre in an easily flankable position.

ofcourse thats all situational, and knowing when to engage and when not to tends to be something they will learn overtime

[Almost Perfect]

Originally posted by Bugs Bunny:

from my personal experience, conscripts vs sturms in mid range cover is pretty even. squads like penals, riflemen, and infantry sections i find nearly always win at mid range against sturms. svt conscripts also can win in mid range.

theyre not BAD at mid range, they can do damage. however, in my experience (and looking at the stats) they have an accuracy drop off more significant than units such as panzergrens who also wield stgs. however, their accuracy within 3 meters is the highest of any unit wielding stgs. what this means is that theyre best used as a squad who flank distracted troops. in most cases, a competent player wont sit their sturmpio at mid range, but instead as a flank troop. so, if OP were to engage a sturmpio at mid range and force an engagement, it could be the best case scenario for them if theyre in an easily flankable position.

ofcourse thats all situational, and knowing when to engage and when not to tends to be something they will learn overtime

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms

Sturmpio MP 44

Accuracy far: 0.403 Accuracy near: 0.621

VS

Panzergrenadier MP44

Accuracy far: 0.15 Accuracy near: 0.7

So yeah, Sturmpioneers don't get as big a benefit for closing to ultra close range as many people would think but of course, I don't know if this webpage is up to date.

[Le Negev]

Originally posted by About Those Rats...:

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms

Sturmpio MP 44

Accuracy far: 0.403 Accuracy near: 0.621

VS

Panzergrenadier MP44

Accuracy far: 0.15 Accuracy near: 0.7

So yeah, Sturmpioneers don't get as big a benefit for closing to ultra close range as many people would think but of course, I don't know if this webpage is up to date.

It's not. Serealia[coh2.serealia.ca] is, though. somewhat

[Nubby Gubs]

Originally posted by About Those Rats...:

Originally posted by Bugs Bunny:

from my personal experience, conscripts vs sturms in mid range cover is pretty even. squads like penals, riflemen, and infantry sections i find nearly always win at mid range against sturms. svt conscripts also can win in mid range.

theyre not BAD at mid range, they can do damage. however, in my experience (and looking at the stats) they have an accuracy drop off more significant than units such as panzergrens who also wield stgs. however, their accuracy within 3 meters is the highest of any unit wielding stgs. what this means is that theyre best used as a squad who flank distracted troops. in most cases, a competent player wont sit their sturmpio at mid range, but instead as a flank troop. so, if OP were to engage a sturmpio at mid range and force an engagement, it could be the best case scenario for them if theyre in an easily flankable position.

ofcourse thats all situational, and knowing when to engage and when not to tends to be something they will learn overtime

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms

Sturmpio MP 44

Accuracy far: 0.403 Accuracy near: 0.621

VS

Panzergrenadier MP44

Accuracy far: 0.15 Accuracy near: 0.7

So yeah, Sturmpioneers don't get as big a benefit for closing to ultra close range as many people would think but of course, I don't know if this webpage is up to date.

that website is very well known to be out of date (its been out of date for several years now). i use this one which was endorsed not too long ago by the staff of coh2.org. its much more up to date https://coh2.serealia.ca/#128 for sturm pioneers, https://coh2.serealia.ca/#72 under panzergrens. check for the section underneath with "mp44" on both, thats the stg. heres the stats on their accuracy.

STURMPIONEERS

Accuracy near 0.621
Accuracy mid 0.506
Accuracy far 0.403

compared to

PANZERGRENS

Accuracy near 0.6
Accuracy mid 0.54
Accuracy far 0.48

you can even compare their charts. the sturms have a dps of 16.034 in 3 meters, the panzergrens have a dps of 15.492 in the same 3 meters, hence my comment about 3 meters.

[jackhickman999]

Originally posted by About Those Rats...:

Originally posted by Bugs Bunny:

from my personal experience, conscripts vs sturms in mid range cover is pretty even. squads like penals, riflemen, and infantry sections i find nearly always win at mid range against sturms. svt conscripts also can win in mid range.

theyre not BAD at mid range, they can do damage. however, in my experience (and looking at the stats) they have an accuracy drop off more significant than units such as panzergrens who also wield stgs. however, their accuracy within 3 meters is the highest of any unit wielding stgs. what this means is that theyre best used as a squad who flank distracted troops. in most cases, a competent player wont sit their sturmpio at mid range, but instead as a flank troop. so, if OP were to engage a sturmpio at mid range and force an engagement, it could be the best case scenario for them if theyre in an easily flankable position.

ofcourse thats all situational, and knowing when to engage and when not to tends to be something they will learn overtime

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms

Sturmpio MP 44

Accuracy far: 0.403 Accuracy near: 0.621

VS

Panzergrenadier MP44

Accuracy far: 0.15 Accuracy near: 0.7

So yeah, Sturmpioneers don't get as big a benefit for closing to ultra close range as many people would think but of course, I don't know if this webpage is up to date.

You're not going to want to get up close with sturms vs shock troops that's just stupid. Shock troops have body armour XD. You need hmg early on to deal with them. Later obers with mg.

[cheeki-breekiv1.1]

shock troops are stupid strong they can 1 v 3 or 1 v 2 most german squads because they have body armor and smgs and you can close the gap with a smoke or nade a blob and deal some damage and no the shocks should not be 0cp or 1 cp it should 2 cp so soviets dont win early game all the time 24/7