Debunking Myth of Order #227

[zanaikin]

Figured I would post this -- a recent video by TIK discussing the realities of Order #227 using some actual history and not just propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOKAIDpOY80

"Don't just make stuff up in order to make the soviet regime worse than it already is! There's no need to do that!" - I remember thinking that as I played this game.

[Jaykar]

well, now i know why penal's are so expensive, and good, you are throwing command staff that ordered retreat at them.

also by this video the first mission is the most inaccurate thing ever, i am glad that they are not monsters.

thx for showing this to me.

[Alisa]

Communism is no better than Nazism, any Bolshevik should be dead, the USSR lost the Cold War, it does not make sense to defend Stalin or the USSR in general.

[Alisa]

In addition, we must finish off the fans of the USSR.

[Felinewolfie]

... But not fascism?
Are you a Plutocrat?

[Felinewolfie]

PS. Hitler also issued no retreat orders. So... Ie. Stalingrad.

[Japzzi]

Originally posted by Felinewolfie:

PS. Hitler also issued no retreat orders. So... Ie. Stalingrad.

That is not the same at all. Hitler never issued ''No retreat orders''. He said that his men were not allowed to make breaks out of Stalingrad. Now there is a big difference between a retreat and a breakout.

When you retreat from something you are trying to get away from combat. The severity varies between a ''fighting retreat'' and a full blown rout. A breakout attempt can not be considered a retreat since they are not running away from the enemy but trying to return to friendly lines.

The russians did not have the same problem. Those soldiers were (Most of the time) deliberately running from the battlefield since they have the friendly lines to retreat to (I.E nobody is blocking the way). Then if you take russian soldiers encircled behind enemy lines like they were during the start of the invasion you call it a breakout. Since you are not retreating because you have nowhere to run. So therefore you have to make a breakout.

The same applies to placed like Berlin were the trapped units did not ''retreat out of Berlin'' but ''Break out of Berlin''. Retreating means close to 0 fighting were a break out is basicly a fight for survival.

[Katitoff]

Originally posted by Japzzi:

Originally posted by Felinewolfie:

PS. Hitler also issued no retreat orders. So... Ie. Stalingrad.

That is not the same at all. Hitler never issued ''No retreat orders''. He said that his men were not allowed to make breaks out of Stalingrad. Now there is a big difference between a retreat and a breakout.

Umm, there was more to eastern front then Stalingrad.
Go read up what happened when army group center was nearing Moscow and what was ordered to them when they were on defensive.

[Ozymandias]

stalin and the ussr are lessons form history we would do well to remember, im sure we could all agree. 40+ million people chewed up by the gulags and ideas of equity...

[76561198051514398]

Originally posted by Remnant:

Communism is no better than Nazism, any Bolshevik should be dead, the USSR lost the Cold War, it does not make sense to defend Stalin or the USSR in general.

Communism is infinitely better than Fascism in every way.

[76561198051514398]

Originally posted by Ozymandias:

stalin and the ussr are lessons form history we would do well to remember, im sure we could all agree. 40+ million people chewed up by the gulags and ideas of equity...

Except that never happened.

Gulags were prisons, around 3 million people died in them from 1924-1956 which is really not that much considering they were doing dangerous manual labour in Siberia.

It is also important to note that not everyone in Gulags were
" Innocent people who sneezed in Stalin's direction "
A lot of people in Gulags were murderers, rapists, captured Japanese/German soldiers, religious extremists, corrupt politicians, etc.

~ Edit ~
Gulags were also not an " Evil Communist invention ", it was just a system carried over and streamlined from Tsarist Russia. Many Bolsheviks had spent time in Siberian work camps under the Tsar, except conditions were worse for them.

[Tombz]

ORDER 270

When read with Order 270 No Surrender and Russian POW are traitors to be inturned after the war to 'Prove Themselves' one must wonder all possibilities of the intention of Stalin's Order 227.

[Eumerin]

Originally posted by InsanityFromTheLandOf"Anime":

Gulags were also not an " Evil Communist invention ", it was just a system carried over and streamlined from Tsarist Russia. Many Bolsheviks had spent time in Siberian work camps under the Tsar, except conditions were worse for them.

Nope. Not saying that the prisons didn't exist under the Tsars. But they weren't nearly as bad as they were under the Communists.

You should read Solzhenitsyn. It's eye-opening.

[Henry]

Originally posted by InsanityFromTheLandOf"Anime":

Originally posted by Remnant:

Communism is no better than Nazism, any Bolshevik should be dead, the USSR lost the Cold War, it does not make sense to defend Stalin or the USSR in general.

Communism is infinitely better than Fascism in every way.

The Russian government used to have to post flyers, posters or w.e. you wanna call them telling people to stop eating one another.
Communism has cost the world more lives than fascism, and the lives of those living under it were much, much worse.

[Alisa]

Originally posted by Henry:

Originally posted by InsanityFromTheLandOf"Anime":

The Russian government used to have to post flyers, posters or w.e. you wanna call them telling people to stop eating one another.
Communism has cost the world more lives than fascism, and the lives of those living under it were much, much worse.

Well, yes, many died of the famine in the USSR and in China, in conflicts, in the world war, the 20th century polovinina was spent on the opposition between the West and the USSR and its allies, 1991 the USSR collapses, the former 15 republics of the USSR are in crisis, but not everyone gets independence, especially Chechnya, look like that's it everything is improving and settling down, but again, f*ck*ng conflicts where russia is connected happens in the 21 st century, all again on a new.

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by InsanityFromTheLandOf"Anime":

Originally posted by Ozymandias:

stalin and the ussr are lessons form history we would do well to remember, im sure we could all agree. 40+ million people chewed up by the gulags and ideas of equity...

Except that never happened.

Gulags were prisons, around 3 million people died in them from 1924-1956 which is really not that much considering they were doing dangerous manual labour in Siberia.

It is also important to note that not everyone in Gulags were
" Innocent people who sneezed in Stalin's direction "
A lot of people in Gulags were murderers, rapists, captured Japanese/German soldiers, religious extremists, corrupt politicians, etc.

~ Edit ~
Gulags were also not an " Evil Communist invention ", it was just a system carried over and streamlined from Tsarist Russia. Many Bolsheviks had spent time in Siberian work camps under the Tsar, except conditions were worse for them.

except, it most certainly did happen.

we cant be sure of the numbers, but we know its multiple tens of millions. not exclusivley the fault of gulag, equity is a savage thing.
but those murderers and rapists..... the commies put them in charge of the camps, the murderers and rapists were capable of redemption, more so at least that those who thought of democracy or freedom. or, as you pointed out, dared to believe in god.

the tsarist system had been by no-means perfect. in my home country of the uk in 1910, we had a new consumer society with rocketing standards of living and the prospect of universal sufferage on the horrizon. in tsarist russia, you were lucky to not be starving to death and so probably werent to concerned with ideas of representative governance.

i digress, socialism sucks balls.