The problem with the Caravan technology.

[CHI LONG QUA]

The Caravan technology doesn't seem to make any contribution to gameplay or strategic depth. It's different from every other Imperial Age economic tech in two ways. It is available to every civ, so it doesn't contribute to the diversity between different civs. It is only useful in the very late game once the gold mines are running out - by which time its cost is negligible.
And as for the massive speed boost to carts: is it a good thing that it's far harder for paladins and hussars to raid them than ranged units?
So there you have three reasons that I find the Caravan technology a pointless nuisance. Why not remove it from the game altogether (and increase the base yield of trade routes, or make carts cheaper)?
Or if it was changed to cost a large amount, and give carts extra HP and pierce armor, wouldn't that be more strategic and interesting?

[FE_HockeySam18]

With all respect, you are quite wrong. The caravan tech is incredibly important in any team game, as trade becomes of paramount importance in Imperial when the gold starts to run out and you still need to be producing high-quality units. Watch recorded games of competitive matches or ask any high-level player and you'll see what I mean.

Originally posted by AfrikaanS:

And as for the massive speed boost to carts: is it a good thing that it's far harder for paladins and hussars to raid them than ranged units?

Trade carts are inherently more vulnerable to ranged units than melee units, speed boost or not. The speed boost accentuates this even more, but it is definitely a feature that ES intended. The speed boost also helps the trade revenue come faster, obviously.

Originally posted by AfrikaanS:

Why not remove it from the game altogether (and increase the base yield of trade routes, or make carts cheaper)?
Or if it was changed to cost a large amount, and give carts extra HP and pierce armor, wouldn't that be more strategic and interesting?

Removing the tech would cause there to be no difference between trade carts in Feudal, Castle, or Imperial, which would be rather uninteresting and not make sense. Granted, no halfway decent player would use trade carts in Feudal or Castle anyway, but there needs to be some natural sense of progression nonetheless. Trade is perfectly balanced as it is and there is no need to change the attributes of the carts or the techs affecting them.

[John Fish]

I've never given it much thought, but I think youre right. It IS a pointless nuisance. Might as well make trade carts go faster all the time, since no one uses them before imp anyway.

Originally posted by AoF_HockeySam18:

Removing the tech would cause there to be no difference between trade carts in Feudal, Castle, or Imperial, which would be rather uninteresting and not make sense. Granted, no halfway decent player would use trade carts in Feudal or Castle anyway, but there needs to be some natural sense of progression nonetheless.

Why then not just increase the speed of trade carts once imperial age is researched?

[-Dare Devil/x/]

Originally posted by John Fist:

Why then not just increase the speed of trade carts once imperial age is researched?

-You can say that about any tech though, no?

[FE_HockeySam18]

Because it would defy the logical progression inherent to RTS games. ES certainly had no idea back in the day that nobody would use trade carts until Imperial Age, but having the tech in Imperial that improves the carts is a tangible progression that allows the player to interact with the game, as opposed to the idea of automating things. If there was just an automatic hidden tech that was researched upon hitting Imperial, 95%+ of players would have no idea that there was any difference.

EDIT: Just saw Dare Devil's post, and I agree. Increased automation caters to laziness and is not a good thing for a RTS game.

[CHI LONG QUA]

It's true that trade is well balanced already, but the tech seems superfluous and I would be interested to hear why it's a good thing that melee units have such a hard time killing the carts.
With other technologies, the logical progression argument is clearly right, because you have to balance researching it too late or too early - compare the cost of Ballistics in Castle age with the cost of war galleys, cav archers or crossbows: getting it will leave you with better, but fewer troops, in the scramble to raid and pressure the enemy. So you are deciding on a smaller force with ballistics, or a larger force without, and although you'll always research it eventually, that's an interesting choice.
By contrast with the Caravan tech it's a choice between making another cart or researching the tech: there's just no pressure there. You'll always have the tech by the time trade carts are in the game in force, which is a stark contrast from choosing ballistics or 3 extra galleys in mid castle.

Originally posted by -Dare Devil/x/:

Originally posted by John Fist:

Why then not just increase the speed of trade carts once imperial age is researched?

-You can say that about any tech though, no?

Other Imperial Age eco techs aren't universal, so they contribute to the game by differentiating the civs. Also, the Caravan tech seems uniquely boring because of the huge impact it has on a large number of carts, compared to its small cost, and because the alternative is in practice to make another cart and then get it: so either way you're choosing to expand your trade.
I can live with Roadrunner carts being able to thumb their noses at Hussars, but in a late imperial team game Caravan is one of the most important techs, and is also one of the last to take full effect in view of the lifespan of gold mines and the time it takes to train new carts. I'd rather have the Caravan tech than the Siege Onager tech, I think, even though Siege Onager costs 1450 food and 1000 gold, and Caravan is only 200 of each. Perhaps another way to improve the strategic depth provided by the Caravan tech would be to greatly increase its cost? It would also contribute to the sense of progression, since there would now be a real choice to be made instead of always getting it even if you only have a measly halfdozen carts.

[CHI LONG QUA]

I should have said - if you've made 8 carts, you're probably going to make 30 carts, and then more. But the tech is already viable compared to making unupgraded carts, even if you have 8 or fewer carts. Caravan is one of the very powerful late game techs on a par with Paladin and Siege Onager, but it is very cheap.