Best Trash Civs

[UmiHime]

I love the Incans, mostly because I don't really care for cavalry. But I love me some trash units. I'd play exclusively trash and siege (and maybe handcannoneers) if I could. What's the best trash civ in the game?

[Pantera]

magyars of course.

[UmiHime]

Is that just because of their castle unit?

[TheBattler]

Spanish - Only civ with fully upgraded Hussars, ESkirms, and Halbs. Furthermore Blacksmith upgrades cost only Food ensuring that you will always fully upgrade your units even if gold becomes tight. They also receive Siege Ram, the most effective anti-building unit when gold is tight.

Magyars - They miss Plate Mail Armor and Squires for their Halbs but more than make up for it with 10% cheaper Hussars and their UU which is a super Hussar. However they miss Siege Ram.

Byzantines - They miss Blast Furnace for Halbs and Hussars, and Bloodlines for Hussars but Halbs and ESkirms are 25% cheaper, allowing them to win wars of attrition. Blast Furnace is not a big deal for Halbs as they basically only kill Hussars in trash wars and they kill Hussars the same with or without it.

Malians - They're a weird one because they miss Blast Furnace for their Halbs, the Hussar upgrade, and Bracer for their ESkirms. However their Halbs resist ESkirm fire much better than any other, and their Light Cavalry defeat every other Hussar in the game 1v1 except Mongol ones, who *barely* beat them. They miss Siege Ram, though.

[Pantera]

@TheBattler you forgot one of the strongest, the Japanese. +35% atack speed lets them have the best halbedeers in the game.

[Pantera]

Originally posted by NameisTJ:

Is that just because of their castle unit?

no

[UmiHime]

Originally posted by TheBattler:

Spanish - Only civ with fully upgraded Hussars, ESkirms, and Halbs. Furthermore Blacksmith upgrades cost only Food ensuring that you will always fully upgrade your units even if gold becomes tight. They also receive Siege Ram, the most effective anti-building unit when gold is tight.

Magyars - They miss Plate Mail Armor and Squires for their Halbs but more than make up for it with 10% cheaper Hussars and their UU which is a super Hussar. However they miss Siege Ram.

Byzantines - They miss Blast Furnace for Halbs and Hussars, and Bloodlines for Hussars but Halbs and ESkirms are 25% cheaper, allowing them to win wars of attrition. Blast Furnace is not a big deal for Halbs as they basically only kill Hussars in trash wars and they kill Hussars the same with or without it.

Malians - They're a weird one because they miss Blast Furnace for their Halbs, the Hussar upgrade, and Bracer for their ESkirms. However their Halbs resist ESkirm fire much better than any other, and their Light Cavalry defeat every other Hussar in the game 1v1 except Mongol ones, who *barely* beat them. They miss Siege Ram, though.

Thanks, this was incredibly helpful

[Sids]

You could throw in Berbers too - or at least someone with a Berber ally, for a stronger skirmisher than anyone else, which can evade pikes. Cheap cavalry helps too.

Or Portuguese simply because they don't need trash.

[TheBattler]

Originally posted by Pantera:

@TheBattler you forgot one of the strongest, the Japanese. +35% atack speed lets them have the best halbedeers in the game.

I would put them in the B Tier compared to the civs I listed. Really good but they lack Hussars and Plate Barding Armor which means alot considering you need them to kill ESkirms; a fully upgraded Hussar with Plate takes 95 ESkirm shots to kill. A Hussar without falls in 32 ESkirm shots. That means that Japanese Light Cavalry die in 27 shots, which is pitiful. At least a Byzantine Hussar, for example, dies in 75 ESkirm shots and a Malian Light Cavalry unit dies in 80.

They also lack Siege Ram.

[SillyOldWilly]

Byzantine cheaper trash isn't that useful late game, because generally speaking by the time you've run out of gold, your economy will be much stronger than it needs to be for trash production. Most civs have bonuses that affect hussars/skirms/halbs, so it's all situational on what the best is (when isn't it).

[UmiHime]

Originally posted by SillyOldWilly:

Byzantine cheaper trash isn't that useful late game, because generally speaking by the time you've run out of gold, your economy will be much stronger than it needs to be for trash production. Most civs have bonuses that affect hussars/skirms/halbs, so it's all situational on what the best is (when isn't it).

Very true.

[Fluppets]

Id say Japananese, because they have a response to pretty much anything, their versatility is their strength.

Their trebuchets are amazing for a trash and siege playstyle. You just position your trash (including champions) between your trebs and Onagers and move up the siege line, which goes really fast with ♥♥♥ trebuchets.

their cavalry isnt the strongest, but its not terrible and u say u dont like them anyway so... Dont underestimate Cavaliers tho, if you only make a small group say 10-20 it will be more cost efficient (paladin upgrade is strong but hella expensive) u can definitely do some work with them, both for raiding or protecting your infantry from siege.

All your gold should go into upgrades, trebuchets/siege, champions and a small group of cavaliers.

Once u get used to ♥♥♥ trebuchets u never want to go back.

Japanese are also very suited for a more supportive playstyle, where u make siege (lots of trebs) and maybe some halbs/skirms depending on the enemy and give all your excess gold to a gold-heavy ally. This kinda works if you have a good teammate so u can focus solely on micro'ing ur siege.

[TheBattler]

Originally posted by SillyOldWilly:

Byzantine cheaper trash isn't that useful late game, because generally speaking by the time you've run out of gold, your economy will be much stronger than it needs to be for trash production. Most civs have bonuses that affect hussars/skirms/halbs, so it's all situational on what the best is (when isn't it).

Maybe it's not useful early on in the trash war, but it will be more and more useful as the game drags on.

Trash units are extremely fragile and die very quickly to each other. You should be constantly replacing them and you should not have some huge surplus of resources unless you're playing 1v1 in Black Forest or something.

Furthermore, you should also be selling Wood and Food at the Market so you can afford building-destroyers (usually Rams, rarely Trebs or Bombards). This is a huge drain on resources because eventually you will be selling 400 Food for enough Gold to create one Ram.

At some point it should be very difficult to replace the strong buildings that can resist Rams, and you and your opponent should be raiding the ♥♥♥♥ out of each other with ESkirms and Hussars that should greatly reduce your economic output, at which point you will be counting your blessings that your Halbs and ESkirms are cheaper.

[Beastlierduke]

Saracens don't recieve a boost in anything

[SillyOldWilly]

Originally posted by TheBattler:

Maybe it's not useful early on in the trash war, but it will be more and more useful as the game drags on.

Trash units are extremely fragile and die very quickly to each other. You should be constantly replacing them and you should not have some huge surplus of resources unless you're playing 1v1 in Black Forest or something.

Furthermore, you should also be selling Wood and Food at the Market so you can afford building-destroyers (usually Rams, rarely Trebs or Bombards). This is a huge drain on resources because eventually you will be selling 400 Food for enough Gold to create one Ram.

At some point it should be very difficult to replace the strong buildings that can resist Rams, and you and your opponent should be raiding the ♥♥♥♥ out of each other with ESkirms and Hussars that should greatly reduce your economic output, at which point you will be counting your blessings that your Halbs and ESkirms are cheaper.

Pretty good point, but I still think that late in the game you would rather units that can pack a bit more punch, rather than sending cheaper, weaker units into a grinder. I guess its just a question of the ratio between the cost effectiveness, but missing blast furnace affects both halbs and hussars pretty drastically.

[Jineapple]

Originally posted by thehunanarchist:

Originally posted by MyWifeLooksLikeAPorkchop:

Saracens don't recieve a boost in anything

does foot archer teambonus +1 damage vs buildings include skirms?

It does, and it's +2 actually.