Can you win playing defensively?

[GrizzGolf]

I hardly rush. I'm more of a set back and build my eco kinda player. In a 1v1 can you win by being defensive or do I need to learn how to rush?

[NIKFS]

i suggest learning how to rush, although if you insist on booming up with a giant eco play black forest, there you can wall off your opponent easily and then boom as long as your opponent doesnt get onagers to cut the forest

[the cup]

You can try getting good at fast castles, but its a bit of a pain since rushing is easily the meta and you are likely to be up against players with 10+ years of experience.

[IamJeo]

On Arabia (+other open maps), the map favors aggressive leveraging of enemy map's weaknesses over playing defensive. The strategy should be a function of the map: if it is easily wallable and you have back resources, you can FC and even boom while defending, then try take advantage of a better economy and retake map control with Castle/Imperial age power spikes.

Defensive style is risky because generally you need to wall yourself in on open maps, yielding full map control to the enemy, as well as choosing to take the role of one reacting to the enemy's moves so the enemy can dictate what troops you make and so win the game.

Originally posted by Bad Hombre:

You can try getting good at fast castles, but its a bit of a pain since rushing is easily the meta and you are likely to be up against players with 10+ years of experience.

No, you are not likely to face players of such experience magnitude on Steam, at least below 1900 elo (unless the few of these that play on HD are shamelessly smurfing).

______________________________________________________________

Learning the MP basics on how and why to rush are the first things you learn when starting to play MP even to new players such as myself: you simply want to use rushing strategies whenever possible since any damage suffered earlier means a MUCH larger disadvantage later. It is simply basic strategy, the most efficient way to achieve economic advantage that can be converted to overwhelming military advantage later.

On Arabia (+other open maps), the map favors aggressive leveraging of enemy map's weaknesses over playing defensive. The strategy should be a function of the map: if it is easily wallable and you have back resources, you can FC and even boom while defending, then try take advantage of a better economy and retake map control with Castle/Imperial age power spikes.

Defensive style is risky because generally you need to wall yourself in on open maps, yielding full map control to the enemy, as well as choosing to take the role of one reacting to the enemy's moves so the enemy can dictate what troops you make and so win the game.

Originally posted by Bad Hombre:

You can try getting good at fast castles, but its a bit of a pain since rushing is easily the meta and you are likely to be up against players with 10+ years of experience.

No, you are not likely to face players of such experience magnitude on Steam, at least below 1900 elo (unless the few of these that play on HD are shamelessly smurfing).

______________________________________________________________

Learning the MP basics on how and why to rush are the first things you learn when starting to play MP even to new players such as myself: you simply want to use rushing strategies whenever possible since any (eco-)damage inflicted earlier means a MUCH larger advantage later. It is simply basic strategy, the most efficient way to achieve economic advantage that can be converted to overwhelming military advantage later.

The whole idea to winning a game is to gain economic advantage. This is why in AoC the Azt and May are powerhouses due their great economic bonuses. (so they basically have a working "innert rush strategy" that gives them eco advantage when doing nothing)

[NIKFS]

Originally posted by jeowaypoint:

On Arabia (+other open maps), the map favors aggressive leveraging of enemy map's weaknesses over playing defensive. The strategy should be a function of the map: if it is easily wallable and you have back resources, you can FC and even boom while defending, then try take advantage of a better economy and retake map control with Castle/Imperial age power spikes.

Defensive style is risky because generally you need to wall yourself in on open maps, yielding full map control to the enemy, as well as choosing to take the role of one reacting to the enemy's moves so the enemy can dictate what troops you make and so win the game.

Originally posted by Bad Hombre:

You can try getting good at fast castles, but its a bit of a pain since rushing is easily the meta and you are likely to be up against players with 10+ years of experience.

No, you are not likely to face players of such experience magnitude on Steam, at least below 1900 elo (unless the few of these that play on HD are shamelessly smurfing).

______________________________________________________________

Learning the MP basics on how and why to rush are the first things you learn when starting to play MP even to new players such as myself: you simply want to use rushing strategies whenever possible since any damage suffered earlier means a MUCH larger disadvantage later. It is simply basic strategy, the most efficient way to achieve economic advantage that can be converted to overwhelming military advantage later.

you could find me here, with over a decade of knowledge, but i aint as good as jeoway with less playtime overall yet better playstyle :P

[IamJeo]

You post too fast NIK_F_S 11 I was still editing :D

[GrizzGolf]

Well what are some noob rush strats I should or could work on?

[Leston]

Winning the match is about gaining advantage over your opponent in a row of actions and reactions.
That means, every strategical or tactical decision you make (based on the situation, especially map, opponent´s actions, civ advantages) should pay off, now or later, and/or prevent your opponent to gain advantage.

If you can attack early and force the opponent to pay at least as much effort (ressources, attention, adapting his strategy...) as you do, you should. Bringing the fight to your opponent´s base likely will save your base from being attacked for a while, so you can keep up your plan while he has to adapt. If you don´t, he will do so.
In this context, staying defensive doesn´t pay off unless your opponent messes it up.

Avoiding any early aggressions by agreement or choosing a map like arena or bf (and walling up) means both do some eco booming (which is in fact not competitive in case of a rts game, it´s not interactive at all) and start a deathmatch (high ressources, potent eco, developed units) afterwards, usually concentrating on a few choke points on the map.
If you like that, it´s fine for you. For me, it´s somehow pathetic. I´d say, just play deathmatch mode and save up the time for booming to play an eco-simulation that is worth it, e.g. like the Anno-series.

[IamJeo]

Originally posted by GrizzGolf:

Well what are some noob rush strats I should or could work on?

Take a look at Advanced Noob Guide maybe, add me on Steam if you want further links to guides I used to get better. It is a good idea to get used to 21-22pop flush BO, to archers from 2 ranges, or scout rush.

[Leston]

Originally posted by GrizzGolf:

Well what are some noob rush strats I should or could work on?

Search on youtube for:
-dark age rush (drush)
-tower rush (tush/trush)
-feudal rush (flush, with bows/skirms or scouts)
There is also a strategy deleting your tc, rebuilding it inside the opponent´s base and garrison some villagers... But thats quite lame ;)

Get the build order from the vid, learn about eventualities and civ advantages supporting these strategies.
Learn that it´s all about the question of attacking with given units (e.g. 6 archers) as soon as possible or to attack with as much military power as possible at a given point of time. Realize that each ideal build order is perfectly dedicated to these aims.

Learn to execute the buildups against ai on arabia/tiny map up to the point of attack. Practise until you don´t mess up the timing anymore (turn on ingame clock).

Then keep on practising, but execute the attack, too. The ai won´t react any good, should be easy. Your aim is to expand your eco or keep up building military units while maintaining your attack well micromanaged. Dont waste time to go on and on until the ai resigns, better start another try.

At first you could practise with explored map, but I´d recommend to do not. Better integrate scouting initially.
You can vary the game speed. Normal (1.5x) is mp-standard, but you can start with 1.0x to memorize the buildup and train micromanagement with less time pressure. Change to 1.5x as soon as you feel 1.0x is routine. Later on, you could speed up to 2.0x (or even more), it will improve your micro skills.
Force yourself to use hotkeys!
I´d suggest to start with an "advantage-neutral" civ like byz or saracens. If necessary, you could make it easier with mongols, speeding up the food gathering (hunters +50%) and providing +2 los for scouting.

Try out your skills in mp-matches as soon as you feel competent. You won´t win every match due to human players (some of them...) are far more skilled in defending than ai and eventually will attack you early, too. But you will be succesful more and more frequently.

Replays:
Watch matches of other players executing (and dealing with) early rushes. Learn about details like placement, micromanagement, taking advantages from map eventualities...
Don´t overextend it, better practise. Knowing how is not being able to.
Record your own matches and review what you could have done better (or: How other players archieved to dominate you).
Don´t review your training against ai, better use the time to try again.

[Horse Glue™]

And then there's the guy who walls himself in 5x, builds a wonder, and then goes to make a sandwich.

[IamJeo]

Originally posted by Sambarino:

And then there's the guy who walls himself in 5x, builds a wonder, and then goes to make a sandwich.

Luckily Conquest-mode is generally chosen over Standard.