Infinite Queues, and only using resources for active training

[Weylin]

Always bugged the ♥♥♥♥ out of me that queuing 10 units automatically takes it out of your stockpile and ties it up in a building, rather than only deducting it when that unit starts being created.

As well, some way to set a building to "train until told otherwise" would be nifty, like if you want your TC to work endlessly until you reach 100 (But at that point, why have queue restrictions? Ctrl+click a unit for 100 build cycles?)

I'm sure there's a technical reason for this, and there would need to be logic to pause unit creation if there's no resources to start making it, and priority would have to be worked out in some way, such as the index of the building.

[Novi]

Spending your resources effectively is part of a skill in pretty much any RTS. Don't queue if you don't want your resources locked.

Same for the "train until told otherwise" option. It's a part of the design of the game (could also be a technical limitation, but at this point it's how it is).

If you don't like it that much, may I suggest trying supreme commander (and FA). It has basically what you want from an RTS (consumes resources as something is building - even 1 unit or building doesn't take everything at once, but consumes resources real-time, has infinite queues).

[Weylin]

I played Homeworld 1 and really liked how unit creation worked there.
Units would build as much as possible and then pause when resources ran out.

Yes, you can get resource locked, but the Homeworld 1 interface had a few nifty things like pausing production, and retiring uneeded units to get 60% of your resources back.


How do you suppose this would effect gameplay for AoE2 if it were the case? Would it be a negative change? Most I can see out of it is less hassle, and not dealing with those infuriating cases where you're 1 resource short of even starting to make something.

[Novi]

I'm not a great AoE player myself to say how changing things like that would affect gameplay, but this argument is brought up in other RTSs too.

What you see as just a hassle is just a part of the game and dealing with it is part of the skillset required to play it. As an example, even something like selecting more than 12 units in StarCraft (which was brought up recently a lot) would change the balance way too much. In SC2 you can select how many you want, but the game was balanced around that idea. In 1, the zerg would become too strong if you could do that.

You need to take a lot of things into consideration when changing basic mechanics like this.

[YuenHsiaoTieng]

I've always wanted this. Any type of changes like this would be a huge plus. It helps weaker players have a stronger game and still makes things easier and more intuitive for everyone else. No one would want to go back to the days of having to lay down a lumber pit then come back later to tell those villages to start chopping. There's plenty of strategy in the game already. No need for frantic clicking and hotkeying to separate good players from bad.

[Weylin]

Originally posted by YuenHsiaoTieng:

I've always wanted this. Any type of changes like this would be a huge plus. It helps weaker players have a stronger game and still makes things easier and more intuitive for everyone else. No one would want to go back to the days of having to lay down a lumber pit then come back later to tell those villages to start chopping. There's plenty of strategy in the game already. No need for frantic clicking and hotkeying to separate good players from bad.

Exactly my thinking.
Hell, I remember playing AoE1, and how you had to spend 80% of your game time pressing hotkeys just to keep constant unit production. And here we are with 15 unit queues and unit formations, and I'm sure we can all agree that it's a good thing.


I look at TheViper play and how hes frantically all over the place constantly, and while it is entertaining to watch, it completely kills any interest I have in playing this game outside of co-op matches with my friends.

[Qu Rahn]

Auto queue would be a good addition imo, it saves a lot of useless clicks/button mashing when you're spamming those trash units from 50 different buildings. An infinite reseed option on the mill would also go well for later parts of the game.

[Weylin]

Originally posted by Qu Rahn:

Auto queue would be a good addition imo, it saves a lot of useless clicks/button mashing when you're spamming those trash units from 50 different buildings. An infinite reseed option on the mill would also go well for later parts of the game.

I just went investigating after I read Novi's post about Supreme Commander:FA, and I think I found myself a new game, haha, it has sooo many user interface things I've been BEGGING for on games like this.

I mean, you can plant 30 building foundations, and then move them around before they're built? You can re-shape the path of a patrol while it's still going?
You can chain like 3 entirely different orders together?
Yes ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ please.

[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

Meh, I like the micro level in AOE2. Having to micromanage everything is just so much fun!
.... for me at least

[Cats. Just Cats.]

Originally posted by aidenpons:

Meh, I like the micro level in AOE2. Having to micromanage everything is just so much fun!
.... for me at least

I fully agree. There is something that every beginner does wrong: When you play an RTS game for the first time, you have this expectation that you can fully concentrate on building your army in the first game phase, and then attack with the army in the second phase. Oh no, I am supposed to keep training troops simultaneously? How bothersome.

But learning to multi-task is an important aspect of the game. A fully automated base that you never have to give a second look because it produces workers and military units automatically .... would just be awful. The challenge to balance maintaining your base and attacking the enemy at the same time.... it would be completely gone. Lame.

Sure, the mechanics in your base can *partially* be automated. That's why we have things like rallying points for workers so that we don't need to send each worker individually to chop wood, et cetera. But if you want to completely automate the base, you are basically cutting the requirement to multi-task completely.

In my opinion, it just wouldn't be the same if you weren't required to multi-task. The reason why a real-time-strategy game feels so "alive" to me is that you have to keep your eyes on everything and be involved in everything.

[Weylin]

I dunno, I bought and played Supreme Commander and it's quite nice being able to set queues on repeat and give my units a list of tasks.

There's still unit micro. On SC, bomber planes have a very slow turn rate, so you have to carefully consider your entrance and exit path to avoid interception, or at least an approach that gives your interceptors a chance to defend them.