Should the New DLC include Different Civilization Units?

[Ashina]

I've heard that a DLC is still on the way to AOE 2 HD.
so I was waiting when we will get just a Reskined Units for different Civilizations.
For Example The European Pikeman will have Different Sprite than the Aztec,and Chinese ones.

[TriRem]

Escrito originalmente por Saint_Michaels_:

Escrito originalmente por Silver:

By Unique I means,they only have different skins,but their animation is still the same,if you want example,Look at other RTS games like Empire Earth,and Rise of Nations,Each Civilization has the same units,but they have Different skins.
North and South European Spearman is like Vanilla Spearman(no Reskin).
Middle East Spearman could looks like any Middle east soldiers.
Asian Spearman can be like Ashigaru soldiers,or any Asian Soldiers.
and American Spearman are American.

The thing about Empire Earth & Rise of Nations is that the Units use 3D models and not 2D sprites, which AoE2 uses. A regular unit in AoE2 has a rough average of well over 200, maybe even 300 sprites to it, which usually consists of an idle, movement, attacking & dying set of sprites in 8 directions. This is opposed to the 3D Model that just only requires the 3D Model itself.

I'm not saying it's not possible and were not exactly saying it shouldn't happen (were saying it needs to be done really well to minimize clash), but I don't think people really understand how much work would have to be put in, in order to achieve multiple sets for every unit.

One of the biggest problems beside the rendering needed to convert 3D models into 2D sprites is that the original 3D models for all the units have been lost irremediably.

One would have to recreate the entire 3D model with the exact same animation as the original, compared to games like RoN where the models already exist and it just a matter of applying a texture change.

[NIKFS]

Escrito originalmente por Gwotyng:

They should.... but they won't.

The Starcraft Remastered is announced. Check the official website. Their professional team takes one year to fully redraw all the units, buildings, and terrain. Look at the efforts, the passion. This is how a true remake should be.

Doesn't a game which has already been one of the best-selling on steam deserve the same treatment?

if you dont like the way units look there are always mods for that, remember many people play aoe2 for the nostalgia, changing such basic things would alienate many players, it just started that some people from voobly are coming here (and vice versa, time will tell if hd can compete but i guess it can coexist at least) so its a bad idea, at least to make it forced
Seperating the data files so you can mod all civilizatioms for themselves to make it yourself is an idea i am okay with, doesnt alienate users, but gives users who want changes the changes they want (maybe even with official units that can be subscribed like the indian architecture

[TriRem]

Escrito originalmente por Gwotyng:

They should.... but they won't.

The Starcraft Remastered is announced. Check the official website. Their professional team takes one year to fully redraw all the units, buildings, and terrain. Look at the efforts, the passion. This is how a true remake should be.

Doesn't a game which has already been one of the best-selling on steam deserve the same treatment?

Blizzard really cares about SC, one of its Crown Jewels, while MS doesn't seem to want to put much money into a 20 years old game that still makes money.

[NIKFS]

Escrito originalmente por TriRem:

Escrito originalmente por Saint_Michaels_:

The thing about Empire Earth & Rise of Nations is that the Units use 3D models and not 2D sprites, which AoE2 uses. A regular unit in AoE2 has a rough average of well over 200, maybe even 300 sprites to it, which usually consists of an idle, movement, attacking & dying set of sprites in 8 directions. This is opposed to the 3D Model that just only requires the 3D Model itself.

I'm not saying it's not possible and were not exactly saying it shouldn't happen (were saying it needs to be done really well to minimize clash), but I don't think people really understand how much work would have to be put in, in order to achieve multiple sets for every unit.

One of the biggest problems beside the rendering needed to convert 3D models into 2D sprites is that the original 3D models for all the units have been lost irremediably.

One would have to recreate the entire 3D model with the exact same animation as the original, compared to games like RoN where the models already exist and it just a matter of applying a texture change.

Are you sure theyre lost though? Searched for early alpha versions lately and i think i saw those models floating around as well, not all maybe but some i think have been leaked back then and still float around on some obscure sites

[TriRem]

Escrito originalmente por NIK_F_S:

Escrito originalmente por TriRem:

One of the biggest problems beside the rendering needed to convert 3D models into 2D sprites is that the original 3D models for all the units have been lost irremediably.

One would have to recreate the entire 3D model with the exact same animation as the original, compared to games like RoN where the models already exist and it just a matter of applying a texture change.

Are you sure theyre lost though? Searched for early alpha versions lately and i think i saw those models floating around as well, not all maybe but some i think have been leaked back then and still float around on some obscure sites

There are alpha slp floating around, but the 3D models haven't surfaced anywhere, and the devs don't have access to them either. They are either lost or buried deep somewhere in MS archives.

[Gwotyng]

Escrito originalmente por NIK_F_S:

if you dont like the way units look there are always mods for that, remember many people play aoe2 for the nostalgia, changing such basic things would alienate many players, it just started that some people from voobly are coming here (and vice versa, time will tell if hd can compete but i guess it can coexist at least) so its a bad idea, at least to make it forced
Seperating the data files so you can mod all civilizatioms for themselves to make it yourself is an idea i am okay with, doesnt alienate users, but gives users who want changes the changes they want (maybe even with official units that can be subscribed like the indian architecture

I know there are many talented modders making many outstanding works. But shouldn't the company put more resources to at least keep the quality game as polished as the original game?

I usually don't use mods to play a game. But the quality of this game let me make the exception.

[Novi]

Escrito originalmente por TriRem:

Escrito originalmente por NIK_F_S:

Are you sure theyre lost though? Searched for early alpha versions lately and i think i saw those models floating around as well, not all maybe but some i think have been leaked back then and still float around on some obscure sites

There are alpha slp floating around, but the 3D models haven't surfaced anywhere, and the devs don't have access to them either. They are either lost or buried deep somewhere in MS archives.

They wouldn't need the 3D models if they really wanted to. They could still redraw them manually (kinda like HoMM3 HD did it?).

It's a bit of a joke when you compare this to the Starcraft remaster, which is aiming for 4K textures.

Then again, where is my Warcraft 2 HD BLIZZ???!!! I'd be fine with a simple resolution hack so that you could see more and maybe change so that you could select more units -.-

[TriRem]

Escrito originalmente por Novi:

Escrito originalmente por TriRem:

There are alpha slp floating around, but the 3D models haven't surfaced anywhere, and the devs don't have access to them either. They are either lost or buried deep somewhere in MS archives.

They wouldn't need the 3D models if they really wanted to. They could still redraw them manually (kinda like HoMM3 HD did it?).

It's a bit of a joke when you compare this to the Starcraft remaster, which is aiming for 4K textures.

Then again, where is my Warcraft 2 HD BLIZZ???!!! I'd be fine with a simple resolution hack so that you could see more and maybe change so that you could select more units -.-

AoM is different though, the models were of a much lower quality compared to the original AoE2 models and therefore much easier to recreate.

[kud13]

Escrito originalmente por Gwotyng:

Escrito originalmente por NIK_F_S:

if you dont like the way units look there are always mods for that, remember many people play aoe2 for the nostalgia, changing such basic things would alienate many players, it just started that some people from voobly are coming here (and vice versa, time will tell if hd can compete but i guess it can coexist at least) so its a bad idea, at least to make it forced
Seperating the data files so you can mod all civilizatioms for themselves to make it yourself is an idea i am okay with, doesnt alienate users, but gives users who want changes the changes they want (maybe even with official units that can be subscribed like the indian architecture

I know there are many talented modders making many outstanding works. But shouldn't the company put more resources to at least keep the quality game as polished as the original game?

I usually don't use mods to play a game. But the quality of this game let me make the exception.

The devs don't own the IP. Microsoft does. The devs don't get to decide what to focuse on exclusively. M$oft does.

Frankly, it's already close to a miracle we got a dev team that was passionate enough to make a major mod on their own timeto be part of the dev team for HD and thus provide the 3 new expansions.

M$oft hasn't been focused on PC gaming for a long time. The support HD is getting is a relative outlier, compared to their general treatment of PC gamers (I swear that Games for Windows Live gave me PTSD)

[NIKFS]

Escrito originalmente por kud13:

Escrito originalmente por Gwotyng:

I know there are many talented modders making many outstanding works. But shouldn't the company put more resources to at least keep the quality game as polished as the original game?

I usually don't use mods to play a game. But the quality of this game let me make the exception.

The devs don't own the IP. Microsoft does. The devs don't get to decide what to focuse on exclusively. M$oft does.

Frankly, it's already close to a miracle we got a dev team that was passionate enough to make a major mod on their own timeto be part of the dev team for HD and thus provide the 3 new expansions.

M$oft hasn't been focused on PC gaming for a long time. The support HD is getting is a relative outlier, compared to their general treatment of PC gamers (I swear that Games for Windows Live gave me PTSD)

Well, maybe they start focusing again a bit more on pc games right now, seems like they start to realize that they can make money in other ways than windows itself

[Novi]

Escrito originalmente por TriRem:

Escrito originalmente por Novi:

They wouldn't need the 3D models if they really wanted to. They could still redraw them manually (kinda like HoMM3 HD did it?).

It's a bit of a joke when you compare this to the Starcraft remaster, which is aiming for 4K textures.

Then again, where is my Warcraft 2 HD BLIZZ???!!! I'd be fine with a simple resolution hack so that you could see more and maybe change so that you could select more units -.-

AoM is different though, the models were of a much lower quality compared to the original AoE2 models and therefore much easier to recreate.

I didn't mention AoM anywhere..

[Qu Rahn]

Escrito originalmente por TriRem:

Escrito originalmente por NIK_F_S:

Are you sure theyre lost though? Searched for early alpha versions lately and i think i saw those models floating around as well, not all maybe but some i think have been leaked back then and still float around on some obscure sites

There are alpha slp floating around, but the 3D models haven't surfaced anywhere, and the devs don't have access to them either. They are either lost or buried deep somewhere in MS archives.

This was answered by one of the original devs IIRC; basically, MS has some of the 3d model files in their archives, but of course, they are extremely hard to get access to. Not all models are there, some were completely lost (deleted, scrapped for space). The existing models come in varying states of development (that would be: some complete, some untextured, some unfinished, some have missing parts, some are non-final versions, etc).

I also remember reading that those high quality 3d models used for generating the sprites in aoe2 were 10-100k polys, not much at all by today's standards.

[Hezekieh]

I think the new DLC should focus more on region-specific techs and units like Parthian Tactics and Camels.