Franks need bloodline

[Certainly]

Frank used to be top tier civ in age of kings. but now every other civs got bloodline and 12hp isn't that "effective"

[Sabriyuk]

No. You are only thinking in Post Imperial. If u play Arabia, Franks have a early good Scout Rush because of HP oh them (54). If u give bloodliens to Franks, they will be OP in feudal age (scouts with 74HP)

[The Very Hungry Caterpillar]

Ensambles 1.0d patch which never went live boosted the knight hp bonus to +25%. (125 hp knights, 150 hp cavalier, 200 hp paladin.) I would much rather see their calvary get +25% hp rather than bloodlines.

Its unlikely Franks will get a calvary boost due to the Chivalry tech introduced in AOFE.

[aggromouse]

Publicado originalmente por Dreamscape:

Ensambles 1.0d patch which never went live boosted the knight hp bonus to +25%.

Do you have a source for this? I tried to search for the patch notes, unsucessfully.

[Jineapple]

Franks are fine, they get a foraging bonus for the early game which is great, and their bonus has been changed to include scouts, which helps a ton with scout rushing.

[TriRem]

Publicado originalmente por Jineapple:

Franks are fine, they get a foraging bonus for the early game which is great, and their bonus has been changed to include scouts, which helps a ton with scout rushing.

It even affects cav archers too, making them go from worst cavalry archers to 4th-5th worst cav archer in the game :p we're talking OP buffs here.

[Certainly]

EZ counter with monks/spearman

Publicado originalmente por Dreamscape:

Ensambles 1.0d patch which never went live boosted the knight hp bonus to +25%. (125 hp knights, 150 hp cavalier, 200 hp paladin.) I would much rather see their calvary get +25% hp rather than bloodlines.

Its unlikely Franks will get a calvary boost due to the Chivalry tech introduced in AOFE.

[Viga_TCB]

Just nerf bloodlines to +10hp or increase the cost by 2-3 times. Bam, everything solved. As it stands, BL is cheap, comes early and have too big of an impact late game. Compared to BL, I think only pre 4.8 arrowslits have the same level of game-changing power.

[Certainly]

Publicado originalmente por Tawm:

Paladins in mass are cost effective vs pikes already. Though paladins are very weak vs siege, that's a lag problem more than an hp problem

massive paladins? How do u manage to gain that much gold? Paladins are Late-imp units.

[TriRem]

Publicado originalmente por Certainly:

Publicado originalmente por Tawm:

Paladins in mass are cost effective vs pikes already. Though paladins are very weak vs siege, that's a lag problem more than an hp problem

massive paladins? How do u manage to gain that much gold? Paladins are Late-imp units.

In a 4v4 with good trade you should be able to field an army of at least 60-70 paladins provided that you don't keep wasting them.

[neilkaz]

Publicado originalmente por Jineapple:

Franks are fine, they get a foraging bonus for the early game which is great, and their bonus has been changed to include scouts, which helps a ton with scout rushing.

I agree 100%.

[Qu Rahn]

Publicado originalmente por aggromouse:

Publicado originalmente por Dreamscape:

Ensambles 1.0d patch which never went live boosted the knight hp bonus to +25%.

Do you have a source for this? I tried to search for the patch notes, unsucessfully.

I'll try to find the link for you, it was IIRC in some thread in aoczone or aoeheaven or something like this, with one of the original developers commenting on many things about aoe2 development.

Here it goes, the original developer is ES_MattP (Matt Pritchard):
http://aok.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/aokcgi/display.cgi?action=st&fn=3&tn=40110&f=,,,&st=0

Copy-paste for people who don't feel like scrolling:

"The Game Balance changes that the Ensemble Core playtesting team (with expert/top players that we hired from the community) came up with for the patch was: (I expect this could start quite a discussion)

1) Chinese starts with +25 food
2) Koreans 20% cheaper light cav
3) Korean War Wagon cost lowered to 90 wood from 100
4) Saracens free cartography
5) Saracens 10% faster berry gathering
6) Byzantines free town watch
7) (all civs) Knights cost raised to 75 food
8) (all civs) Knights - bloodlines affects them by +10 instead of +20 for other cav units
9) Aztecs, Mayans: Give castle age Eagle Warriors +10hp
10) Aztecs, Mayans: Elite Eagle Warrior upgrade only +5 hp instead of +10hp, reduced in cost to 700 food / 450 gold
11) Franks knights 25% HP bonus instead of 20%
12) Turks: start with +50 gold, +50 stone
13) (all civs) Skirmishers speed reduced to .89 movement speed (just under Man At Arms speed)
14) (all civs) Camels +5 more HP, +1 pierce armor, increased anti cav bonus +15%
15) (all civs) Archers train time -5 seconds - to 30 seconds from their current 35 (I believe)
16) Spanish: Allow missionaries to get relics
17) Vikings: Team dock bonus needs to be staggered per age. 10%-15%-20%-25%
18) Huns: Remove Treadmill Crane
19) Persia: Add team bonus - all cavalry get a +1 bonus vs. archers
20) Huns: -100 stone at start of game
21) Goths: Infantry costs go back to 35% cheaper from 35%
22) Goths: villagers move +10% faster
23) Spanish: Conquistadors +10hp"

[Certainly]

Publicado originalmente por Qu Rahn:

Publicado originalmente por aggromouse:

Do you have a source for this? I tried to search for the patch notes, unsucessfully.

I'll try to find the link for you, it was IIRC in some thread in aoczone or aoeheaven or something like this, with one of the original developers commenting on many things about aoe2 development.

Here it goes, the original developer is ES_MattP (Matt Pritchard):
http://aok.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/aokcgi/display.cgi?action=st&fn=3&tn=40110&f=,,,&st=0

Copy-paste for people who don't feel like scrolling:

"The Game Balance changes that the Ensemble Core playtesting team (with expert/top players that we hired from the community) came up with for the patch was: (I expect this could start quite a discussion)

1) Chinese starts with +25 food
2) Koreans 20% cheaper light cav
3) Korean War Wagon cost lowered to 90 wood from 100
4) Saracens free cartography
5) Saracens 10% faster berry gathering
6) Byzantines free town watch
7) (all civs) Knights cost raised to 75 food
8) (all civs) Knights - bloodlines affects them by +10 instead of +20 for other cav units
9) Aztecs, Mayans: Give castle age Eagle Warriors +10hp
10) Aztecs, Mayans: Elite Eagle Warrior upgrade only +5 hp instead of +10hp, reduced in cost to 700 food / 450 gold
11) Franks knights 25% HP bonus instead of 20%
12) Turks: start with +50 gold, +50 stone
13) (all civs) Skirmishers speed reduced to .89 movement speed (just under Man At Arms speed)
14) (all civs) Camels +5 more HP, +1 pierce armor, increased anti cav bonus +15%
15) (all civs) Archers train time -5 seconds - to 30 seconds from their current 35 (I believe)
16) Spanish: Allow missionaries to get relics
17) Vikings: Team dock bonus needs to be staggered per age. 10%-15%-20%-25%
18) Huns: Remove Treadmill Crane
19) Persia: Add team bonus - all cavalry get a +1 bonus vs. archers
20) Huns: -100 stone at start of game
21) Goths: Infantry costs go back to 35% cheaper from 35%
22) Goths: villagers move +10% faster
23) Spanish: Conquistadors +10hp"

this looks fair enough. Bloodline way too strong.

[Heisenberg]

They lack bloodlines because of their 20% HP on cavalry which is better on the knight line. Yeah, their light cav is worse (better pre-bloodlines), but their knight line is significantly better.

[edwardalbee]

According to Spirt of the Law Franks have the highest 1 v 1 win rate of all the civs. I thought that was interesting because I have never been a fan of them. But according to the stats, obejrctively they are the best (on average - of course individual circumstances may vary).

[Bullet Force]

Publicado originalmente por Tawm:

Paladins in mass are cost effective vs pikes already. Though paladins are very weak vs siege, that's a lag problem more than an hp problem

My inner Goth strongly disagrees.