Barbarossa 5 seems to be actually impossible to beat...

[Vectros]

So like many people I played this game back in the day. I "beat" all the campaigns with cheats.

This time around I'm doing it for real, on Moderate difficulty. I started with Barbarossa campaign because the Teutons are my favorite civ. Anyways...

I've made my way to the 5th mission, Barbarossa's march, but I can't get a navy to cross the river. It's giving me 2 options; Constantinople, or Gallipoli.

If I go to Constantinople I can make my way through the city, then I take the wonder and get like, 8 transport ships and maybe 5 combat vessels, a combination of fire ships/galleys. Which isn't nearly enough. As soon as they convert, I get swamped by the Saracen Navy. Dozens of ships flood in, there is LITERALLY nothing I can do to win that fight. I have noticed there are still a bunch of blue ships still around, which makes me wonder if they were supposed to convert.

Ok, guess I won't try that route. Let's try the other route! I sneak by the Saracen army (which I need to stop doing because they keep attacking me later anyways, as soon as I get a navy)....and the same thing happens. Bum rushed by an impossibly large fleet, taking out all the transports in 20 seconds or less. Like, what?

Thinking long term here, I *might* be able to go to one location and get hopefully *all* the enemies to flood over there, destroy their Navy via Monks/Trebuchets, then go to the other location with an army hopefully still big enough to take the other location, then sail from there. That's assuming one does not turn off the other trigger, I'm not sure if it's set this way or not. Hoping someone can shed some light on this, because by going one of either of these routes will always result in a dead Navy.

[WSlord]

Beaten this several times on hardest over the years. Detach yourself from naval victory and think of ship sacrifices. Have the most important transport ship priority numbered (Monks and Trebuchets are important). Keeping a scout alive for scouting and trapping leading can be useful too. Also expect heavy camel/cav archer resistance. Think of yourself on a time even if it is not timed.
Sacrifice your offensive navy and get your transport ships a shore. To the south at ANY COST!

Avoid blue, it is a time and resource sink. Troops directly middle south as far as you can go on land and then left to Gallipoli.
to pick up your transport ships. This way you can avoid green, but can kill their dock (If you wish). Turning such ships then directly south should get you to the best landing location which should take you down and left into a fortification and then around right again. Keep north so you will only have to deal with two castles. Should be easy to make it to Orange.
Prepare for some sieges. The point is not to win and kill the enemy but get your troops to that Orange castle. Think of who can be sacrificed to stall and how. You have plenty of spearmen and paladins (which last a while).


Don't neglect box formation with archers, monks, and pike on hold ground stance. The AI has trouble with it and the box gets kept alive by the monks (beware siege). Why you got paladins though. Proper scouting on a control number is essential.

Good luck.

Gaming philosophies aside
Multiple saves will help you learn the maps, enemy formations, the mistakes that can be made.

[mmmcheesywaffles]

I've never used any other cheat than revealing the whole map. I allowed that to myself as the AI seems to know where everything is already :)

Oh.... nearly forgot. I have won every campaign.

[Vectros]

One problem, which I mentioned in my post. At gallipoli, the moment I get the transports, a dozen Saracen Navy ships converge and destroy them. I have Onagers, Monks, and Trebuchets to fight them-but I really can't see myself successfully destroying all of them before my 4 transports are gone.

This is what is making me think something is glitched. You're saying I avoid green by going taht route, but they're all over me the instant I get those ships.

Oh and while I'm thinking about it, you seem to be describing the path I originally took-between Blue and the Green mamaluks/onager/castle area. I was trying to avoid a fight, but every time I get tranports (regardless of where) these units bum rush me anyways. I'd almost feel better just fighting them on my terms-take them head on instead of having them rush me.

[WSlord]

Originally posted by Vectros:

One problem, which I mentioned in my post. At gallipoli, the moment I get the transports, a dozen Saracen Navy ships converge and destroy them. I have Onagers, Monks, and Trebuchets to fight them-but I really can't see myself successfully destroying all of them before my 4 transports are gone.

This is what is making me think something is glitched. You're saying I avoid green by going taht route, but they're all over me the instant I get those ships.

Oh and while I'm thinking about it, you seem to be describing the path I originally took-between Blue and the Green mamaluks/onager/castle area. I was trying to avoid a fight, but every time I get tranports (regardless of where) these units bum rush me anyways. I'd almost feel better just fighting them on my terms-take them head on instead of having them rush me.

So you don't even get off the land on moderate because Green's Navy is that bad? Yeah that shouldn't be, can force yourself out of there within minutes usually even on hardest.

Though the key is not fighting that navy at all, but simply running away from it.

Perhaps the AI is getting switched around somehow.

They do have two docks though and one is in a terrible position to reach so the longer you stay the more that one is pumping out ships.

Try the head on aproach, perhaps it may just work better with them acting like that.

[NOCTURNE]

You should get several ships from Constantinople, those are more than enough to destroy the saracen navy.

7:18:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_FBKpER5oY&t=6s&list=PLmWFX0-bqq4cAemb820pjhdCcw5o__HtQ&index=25

[mmmcheesywaffles]

I just took a couple of ships near the enemy then RAN. Drawing the enemy into my other ships, that gave me a little more time to get the transports away from danger.

It may have taken me two phases to get the transports to safety - I don't rememember well enough. But I know I used the bait and trap a few times to weaken the enemy fleet and eventually send them off after one of my ships.
EDIT: I forgot to add that the decoy ship was not my last one. I stil lhad ships left to scout ahead of the transports.

[mmmcheesywaffles]

Originally posted by NOCTURNE:

You should get several ships from Constantinople, those are more than enough to destroy the saracen navy.

LOL I was thinking of a different scenario. However, my tactic would work well there too. Both on land and sea. Those Trebs should survive!

[Vectros]

Originally posted by NOCTURNE:

You should get several ships from Constantinople, those are more than enough to destroy the saracen navy.

7:18:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_FBKpER5oY&t=6s&list=PLmWFX0-bqq4cAemb820pjhdCcw5o__HtQ&index=25

So here's the thing. When I go to this fleet, Constantinople's fleet is trying to shoot me while I'm in their city. I'm guessing the trigger they use is area based and they didn't actually select the units. I end up with 6 tranports, 2 fire ships, 3 galleys-5 combat ships vice the 15 shown in the video, a third the size I should apparently be getting.

What's worse is how the enemy acts. Green isn't moving there until Red moves out. When I do it, the instant I get the navy, over a dozen ships are already on top of me. I don't think even the Viper could micro his way out of it. From what I'm seeing it looks like my scenario is busted for some reason....I have a couple of AI downloaded, but never replaced any files already there, so I don't see why that would affect it...

Which again, once I get those ships, their ENTIRE Navy ends up heading my direction. I'm reasonably certain even with all 15 ships it'd still be a struggle, because they're not spaced out like they are in the video.

EDIT: Took footage of an attempt. Since I knew what was going to happen I tried getting myself into position to counter it, but still lost my ships. I cut the video before the end, but rest assured, all transports died.

https://youtu.be/qUOcuI3LMcM

[NIKFS]

Hmm i did it in both cd and hd version

[Harry Pioter]

Its possible and its easy

[Vectros]

Originally posted by seyFert:

Its possible and its easy

Well thanks for trying to make me feel inadequate. How about you say something useful?

Did you even read my posts? I believe the AI is bugged, looked at the video I posted.

[Vectros]

Originally posted by NIK_F_S:

Hmm i did it in both cd and hd version

On this latest patch? I'm trying to work out why the AI seems to be behaving differently for me than others, since they seem far more aggressive than for other people.

[WSlord]

Just replayed it on moderate, and yes the AI went super nutty. I made it through, but yes they exhibited very aggressive behavior. Had Marco Polo Turned on to observe their behavior.
Both Byzantine (never attacks unless you bother them) and Green attacked me instantly with their forces at the start (Like full on assaulted me in the start corner).
Began clomping their scattered navy into a mass much as seen in Verctros video. I had sent my scout cavalry at the start to grab the transport ships and get them to the south for loading. Luckily this glob of ships was on the other side of the map, but heading towards my direction and the only reason I made it is my scout beeline. Could have done it faster too if it weren't for the micro cornered fight of the century.

Most of these ships like the demolition ships are set on patrol back and forth, but definitely ceased to do that within the first couple of minutes.

Yeah, maybe the patch did bug the AI.

Still, it’s doable, but definitely not AOC moderate AI behavior.

Anyone one notice anything with the AI on other AOC levels at Moderate difficulty?

[Vectros]

I am interested to check similar levels, like the Joan of Arc missions. Haven't tried those on HD. I'm curious if it's just this map, or everywhere.

Though what you're describing doesn't really sound uh...doable, in the sense that without having beaten it prior and using Marco Polo to observe, you're not going to get it...or am I wrong? Seems really obnoxious either way. I might just i r winner this. I want to do the campaigns legit, but not when the AI is going insane on me-I want to take on the challenges presented by the developers :\

[WSlord]

Originally posted by Vectros:

I am interested to check similar levels, like the Joan of Arc missions. Haven't tried those on HD. I'm curious if it's just this map, or everywhere.

Though what you're describing doesn't really sound uh...doable, in the sense that without having beaten it prior and using Marco Polo to observe, you're not going to get it...or am I wrong? Seems really obnoxious either way. I might just i r winner this. I want to do the campaigns legit, but not when the AI is going insane on me-I want to take on the challenges presented by the developers :\

I understand what you mean on as counting a legitimate for your play through. Random guessing in the dark where that fleet is at is a hamper and more luck based making it to much a chore and not fun. The escape would be like playing the lottery.

If you do skip it keep in mind the final level of Babrossa is amongst the top three hardest levels of the original AOC campaigns and even on standard is one which will give you little to no quarter after the 5 minutes are up. It took years for me to figure out how to do it on hardest back in the day because my moderate strategy simply didn’t work.


Good luck.