Hunger / Thirst rates

[VongolaXth]

What are you guys saying about the hunger / thirst decrease rates? I am not a veteran I am a "I play a couple days and then stop for months kinda player" haha and EVERY time I play its like 70% is about survival, getting food through hunting pigs, cows and more (food drops arent reliable so the focus is on hunting) and even if you kill a WHOLE cow and cook it up, it makes your belly full once and then you have just a few steaks left. Which sounds ok if the hunger rate wouldnt decrease so fast. It feels like after 30 minutes I can eat a whole other cow again. So my cycly always is: Looting, hunting, eating, moving, looting hunting eating moving. Every now and then you have a fight against another player and then it starts again Looting, hunting, eating, moving. Don't forget the rain every now and then which makes it perfect to combine the eating with the make yourself dry.

Do you think the hunger / thirst decrease rates are too high? A full veteran might say yes but a normal more of a casual but not completely casual type of player? Whats your opinion about this? Just to add to all this, I am always walking around I rarely sprint, only in fights against players or zombies. My belly empties itself very fast anyways ahah.

[kolorotur]

The more you eat/drink, the faster the hunger/thirst decreases.
To take the most out of your food reserves don't stuff yourself, keep it just above yellow. Will take some immunity hit, but that can be countered with multivitamins and warm clothes.
Also, don't sprint unless it's absolutely necessary — you will burn calories even faster.
As for the survival aspect, I personally like it. For those who just want PvP there's PUBG and alike.

[ꉔꏂ꒐꒒ꇙ]

Originally posted by kolorotur:

The more you eat/drink, the faster the hunger/thirst decreases.

To take the most out of your food reserves don't stuff yourself, keep it just above yellow. Will take some immunity hit, but that can be countered with multivitamins and warm clothes.
Also, don't sprint unless it's absolutely necessary — you will burn calories even faster.
As for the survival aspect, I personally like it. For those who just want PvP there's PUBG and alike.

I wish there was a bit of info about this (I think there are tips on the pause menu but don't think it dives deep into things like this)

I've been stuffing myself to make sure I could last a bit longer before needing to eat. If I had known it just makes it worse, I would have avoided doing this (and for thirst as well) too many things to learn and remember, bad for people with bad memory but enjoy the game, like myself.

Also, the thing is, you need to find these items. Multivitamins can be a B to find, warm clothes, not so much but you still need to find them. Same with having the tools to hunt etc. If you don't die/starve to death or get killed before then.

People will PVP if the game allows it. So, PVP lovers will heavily focus on PVP, even if it has a mixture of survival with it. I was being friendly and got killed for it... last time I am friendly with people.

[kolorotur]

Originally posted by ꉔꏂ꒐꒒ꇙ:

I wish there was a bit of info about this (I think there are tips on the pause menu but don't think it dives deep into things like this)

I think the lack of in-game details about mechanics is intentional on the developers' part.
Same reason we can't see health/blood numbers, exact illness or weapon stats — the game encourages learning via trial and error.

[_KC76_]

Originally posted by kolorotur:

The more you eat/drink, the faster the hunger/thirst decreases.
To take the most out of your food reserves don't stuff yourself, keep it just above yellow. Will take some immunity hit, but that can be countered with multivitamins and warm clothes.
Also, don't sprint unless it's absolutely necessary — you will burn calories even faster.
As for the survival aspect, I personally like it. For those who just want PvP there's PUBG and alike.

I think this is a misunderstanding of how that mechanic works, or at least, an over-simplification ..
Yes, from a completely full stat, the stats reduce at a faster rate .. UNTIL they reach the mid-level stat, then they revert to the same rate as if you were "just above yellow" .. You still need to eat more often than if you had a full stomach, because the amount of reserves are lower. (4 small meals vs 1 large meal).

I'll try to analogize to a car's fuel tank. Your car gets the best Fuel Mileage when the tank is between 3/4 full and 1/4 full .. Above 3/4 full, your car uses more gas, and below 1/4 full, your car uses more gas .. These are JUST the fuel-use Rates .. with a Full Tank, you still have MORE FUEL, and will travel farther between re-fills than if you keep your tank Half-full all the time for the sake of a "better Use-Rate".

[kolorotur]

Originally posted by _KC76_:

Yes, from a completely full stat, the stats reduce at a faster rate .. UNTIL they reach the mid-level stat, then they revert to the same rate as if you were "just above yellow" .. You still need to eat more often than if you had a full stomach, because the amount of reserves are lower. (4 small meals vs 1 large meal).

Energy is burned at twice the rate when it's full compared to when it's at zero. If you maintain your energy bars just above yellow, the same amount of water and food will let you survive for longer compared to when you keep them topped up at maximum.
Yes, you'll need to eat/drink more often, but the same amount of food will give you more energy overall.

Originally posted by _KC76_:

I'll try to analogize to a car's fuel tank.

No need for analogies, here's exact energy burn formula (as of the current patch) if you'd like to run some simulations or crunch numbers in a spreadsheet:

burn/sec = [base rate] * ([current energy] / [max energy] + 1)

where:
[base rate] is:
0.01 when standing still
0.11 when walking
0.31 when jogging
0.61 when sprinting

[current energy] is your current water/food value, goes from 0 to 5000.
[max energy] = 5000

Thresholds:
Red: [0-300]
Yellow: (300-800]
Half-filled: (800-3500]
Full: (3500-5000]

A couple of scenarios as an example:

1. You're at 0 energy when you find someone's stash with 5K calories worth of food.
A). If you stuff yourself by eating all of it in one sitting (we'll ignore stomach capacity for now) and raise it to the max 5k energy, it will last you around 3 hours and 6 minutes until the energy drops to zero again, assuming you'll be jogging all this time non-stop.
B). If you raise it to around 1000 (just above yellow at 800) and maintain it by eating 200 calories every time the indicator turns yellow, then the same 5k calories will last last you for around 3 hours and 51 minutes — a 45 minutes extra survival time.

2. You're at zero energy and found someone's stash with 10k calories worth of food.
A). If you eat half of it immediately to max out the energy and then top it up the moment the indicator changes from full to half-filled, then these 10k calories will last you ~5 hours and 32 minutes while jogging constantly.
B). If you ratio it the same way as in the previous example, then the same 10k calories will allow you to jog for ~7 hours and 39 minutes non-stop — extra 2 hours of survival.

Granted, with the second approach you'll be eating more often — a 200-calorie snack every 9 minutes or so vs one 1500-calorie meal every 43 minutes.

It's not as important if you've established a good food source or experienced enough with the game to quickly find food anywhere, but if you're a fresh spawn, especially when new to the game, rationing food can be a good way to buy more time to gear up and gather materials for that fishing rod before starving to death.

[_KC76_]

In both your scenarios, you are finding stashes, and then having to carry around half, wasting Inventory slots with food stores, to gain a few minutes ... This is the part I addressed above. When you've burned that first 3000 calories at "twice" the rate, you are now at about 2000 calories, and the burn rate REDUCES to the same rate as if you only had 2000 calories of reserve to begin with .. so, as I said, yes, you will burn some of your calories faster, but you will also be avoiding those several "stops" you have to make to open food, cook food, avoid vaulting while eating, avoid sprinting while eating, avoid fighting while eating, avoid crawling while eating, wait for cooked food to cool, etc.
- Rationing food makes your calories go SLIGHTLY farther .. AT THE COST of putting yourself a higher risk of being Distracted, or at a Disadvantage in Offensive/Defensive situations, more often.

As a "freshie", you should be eating everything you find immediately, and never lugging it around in your very limited Inventory just to save a few calories for "later", when "later" may never come. Rationing makes more sense AFTER you are Geared and Secure.

[kolorotur]

Originally posted by _KC76_:

In both your scenarios, you are finding stashes, and then having to carry around half, wasting Inventory slots with food stores, to gain a few minutes

Indeed, inventory space is a thing to consider.
As for the stashes — replace it with a pig/sheep/deer, or even abundance of chickens in most cities, and it's pretty much the same.

Originally posted by _KC76_:

you are using a straight-line estimation of calories burned .. You're using the higher rate of burn of a full stomach for the entire 5000 calorie scale

I'm not, above scenarios account for the reduced energy and consequent reduced burn rate at each tick.

Originally posted by _KC76_:

you will burn some of your calories faster, but you will also be avoiding those several "stops" you have to make to open food, cook food, avoid vaulting while eating, avoid sprinting while eating, avoid fighting while eating, avoid crawling while eating, wait for cooked food to cool, etc.
- Rationing food makes your calories go SLIGHTLY farther .. AT THE COST of putting yourself a higher risk of being Distracted, or at a Disadvantage in Offensive/Defensive situations.

Can argue about opening and cooking — you need to do it regardless, but other are valid points worth considering.

Originally posted by _KC76_:

As a "freshie", you should be eating everything you find immediately, and never lugging it around in your very limited Inventory just to save a few calories for "later", when "later" may never come.

Well, if later never comes, then who cares about all that saved inventory space? :)

Originally posted by _KC76_:

may never come. Rationing makes more sense AFTER you are Geared and Secure.

If the goal is to forget about survival aspects and focus on PvP as much as possible, then sure. Otherwise when geared and secure you'll have no issues obtaining food whatsoever, so might as well top it up just because you can.

[_KC76_]

Inventory space matters when you have to choose between a can of peaches, and 2 extra Glock Mags ... so then you're a sitting duck while you open and eat the peaches, so you can grab the 2 glock mags, and *poof* "You Are Dead".

[JSTR]

The food and water is tied to your temperature. If you're cold you're going to burn through it a lot faster. If everything is white and you have plus signs on your temperature you'd be shocked how long your stats will stay white. Wearing the right clothes helps a lot, I personally like the bomber jacket and quilted coat. Other people use the hunter clothes and patrol items since they're waterproof but the insulation is so bad i don't even bother. If it doesn't say best insulation I'm not picking it up.

With the new pocket space patch I find myself carrying a drybag and a field shovel around sometimes.

[ꉔꏂ꒐꒒ꇙ]

Originally posted by kolorotur:

I think the lack of in-game details about mechanics is intentional on the developers' part.

Same reason we can't see health/blood numbers, exact illness or weapon stats — the game encourages learning via trial and error.

I didn't read all the help tips on the Pause Menu. I think it has like, 40 or 50+ info tips. I just can't keep stuff in my head that I have to read. I rather do it in-game rather than read/watch and try to remember what I read/watched.

For Health/Blood, it is kind of obvious when you're about to die. The sickness thing is a pain in the butt. Since they show the same icon, it's hard to know what medicine you need (again, if it isn't obvious) and trying to find medicine when you need it, is another pain in the butt task.

The sickness that drains your thirst/hunger I hate the most. It never leaves and you need multivitamins to get rid of it (if it isn't at a hospital or etc, RIP) so, some things are more of an annoyance rather than just trying to survive. Most things you need to find and if you don't, you will be joining the dirt.

Weapon Stats... if you know your weapons, you know what does what and which one is more powerful than the other. Trial and errors are all good and fun but when you get stuck on a loop (trail and error, trial and error, trail and error) it takes away the fun, for me.

You can only repeat something for so long before you end up hating it.

As for the Thirst/Hunger going down quickly, I feel that on the Cherno map more than on Livonia. Don't know why but it seems the loot drops are more consistent on Livonia than Cherno.

But I did learn about not fulling yourself up to keep your Thirst/Hunger good for more longer. Now, I know that Temp plays a part on that and will try to keep myself well clothed to avoid the stat drainage.

[kolorotur]

OP asked about opinions on whether the rate is too low/high — it's right there, earlier in the paragraph. Not about inventory management. Not about intricacies of PvP. About the rate or hunger/thirst decrease.
The min-maxing "tutorial" explained how the mechanic works, why OP observed some effects, and how they can use the knowledge of the mechanic to their advantage.
In other words, my reply was strictly on topic, That is, until you came along and derailed the discussion to inventory management.
So I'll continue to arm-chair moderate, thank you very much. Let's return to discussing the hunger/thirst decrease rates.

[_KC76_]

Originally posted by kolorotur:

OP asked about opinions on whether the rate is too low/high — it's right there, earlier in the paragraph. Not about inventory management. Not about intricacies of PvP. About the rate or hunger/thirst decrease.
The min-maxing "tutorial" explained how the mechanic works, why OP observed some effects, and how they can use the knowledge of the mechanic to their advantage.
In other words, my reply was strictly on topic, That is, until you came along and derailed the discussion to inventory management.
So I'll continue to arm-chair moderate, thank you very much. Let's return to discussing the hunger/thirst decrease rates.

Originally posted by kolorotur:

Originally posted by _KC76_:

Yes, from a completely full stat, the stats reduce at a faster rate .. UNTIL they reach the mid-level stat, then they revert to the same rate as if you were "just above yellow" .. You still need to eat more often than if you had a full stomach, because the amount of reserves are lower. (4 small meals vs 1 large meal).

Energy is burned at twice the rate when it's full compared to when it's at zero. If you maintain your energy bars just above yellow, the same amount of water and food will let you survive for longer compared to when you keep them topped up at maximum.
Yes, you'll need to eat/drink more often, but the same amount of food will give you more energy overall.

Originally posted by _KC76_:

I'll try to analogize to a car's fuel tank.

No need for analogies, here's exact energy burn formula (as of the current patch) if you'd like to run some simulations or crunch numbers in a spreadsheet:

burn/sec = [base rate] * ([current energy] / [max energy] + 1)

where:
[base rate] is:
0.01 when standing still
0.11 when walking
0.31 when jogging
0.61 when sprinting

[current energy] is your current water/food value, goes from 0 to 5000.
[max energy] = 5000

Thresholds:
Red: [0-300]
Yellow: (300-800]
Half-filled: (800-3500]
Full: (3500-5000]

A couple of scenarios as an example:

1. You're at 0 energy when you find someone's stash with 5K calories worth of food.
A). If you stuff yourself by eating all of it in one sitting (we'll ignore stomach capacity for now) and raise it to the max 5k energy, it will last you around 3 hours and 6 minutes until the energy drops to zero again, assuming you'll be jogging all this time non-stop.
B). If you raise it to around 1000 (just above yellow at 800) and maintain it by eating 200 calories every time the indicator turns yellow, then the same 5k calories will last last you for around 3 hours and 51 minutes — a 45 minutes extra survival time.

2. You're at zero energy and found someone's stash with 10k calories worth of food.
A). If you eat half of it immediately to max out the energy and then top it up the moment the indicator changes from full to half-filled, then these 10k calories will last you ~5 hours and 32 minutes while jogging constantly.
B). If you ratio it the same way as in the previous example, then the same 10k calories will allow you to jog for ~7 hours and 39 minutes non-stop — extra 2 hours of survival.

Granted, with the second approach you'll be eating more often — a 200-calorie snack every 9 minutes or so vs one 1500-calorie meal every 43 minutes.

It's not as important if you've established a good food source or experienced enough with the game to quickly find food anywhere, but if you're a fresh spawn, especially when new to the game, rationing food can be a good way to buy more time to gear up and gather materials for that fishing rod before starving to death.

You had your say. I had my say. And then YOU went on ^this^ big long explanation of how you didn't over-simplify your "min-max tutorial", which kinda proves that you did over-simplify, and mis-represent it. You keep saying "half-full", when in reality, the stat range is 800-3500 out of a scale of 5000 ... You keep saying stay right above 800 (which is less than 20%, not "half"), when in reality, you should be staying right around 3450 (close to 70% full) to gain the most benefit .. the "double use" rate does not kick in until you are OVER 3500 .. Now, after you've been shown that your "advice" in an "opinion" thread is not quite accurate, you want to dictate what other people can talk about, and arm-chair moderate .. In my opinion, the "rates" are just fine, and it only becomes a problem when you think you understand how a game mechanic works, but really don't. Eat/Drink everything, all the time, get full, stay full.

[VongolaXth]

OoooH! Someone mentioned the temperature. Didnt know that it could affect the rates "that" much. The last few days I played with cold and wet situations so the temperature was blue more often which might be the reason why it burned even faster.

Thanks for replying guys! I'll try to not overeat anymore meaning, to focus the "full" icon haha.. Before I was always trying to have the uptime of the full belly all the time haha.

Edit: OOH and I don't know if my break was too long but when did they add that you can't eat wolf meat anymore haha.. Or maybe I didnt encounter wolfs the last many plays I had? Didnt know it and got sick hehe.

[Coffee]

I think the rates are reasonable it is a survival game after all. While intended to be somewhat realistic things need to be tailored so a character can be played out in a number of hours. That's why a broken leg takes 15 minutes to heal instead of 6-8 weeks.

[_KC76_]

Originally posted by VongolaXth:

OoooH! Someone mentioned the temperature. Didnt know that it could affect the rates "that" much. The last few days I played with cold and wet situations so the temperature was blue more often which might be the reason why it burned even faster.

Thanks for replying guys! I'll try to not overeat anymore meaning, to focus the "full" icon haha.. Before I was always trying to have the uptime of the full belly all the time haha.

Edit: OOH and I don't know if my break was too long but when did they add that you can't eat wolf meat anymore haha.. Or maybe I didnt encounter wolfs the last many plays I had? Didnt know it and got sick hehe.

Version 1.26 update changed Wolf and Bear meat to be contaminated .. You can cheese it though, by taking a Vitamin right before you eat a steak, and keep the medication icon until the meat is fully digested.

Wobo has a video on the food stats from before the v1.26 update, but it still helps understand the Icons, since the icons do not represent accurately .. White icon 3/4 full is closer to an actual "half full" status, ircc.