Who exactly benefits from having no default map / player position?

[Adephx]

Just got me thinking. Experienced players don't need a map, because they can roam around with their eyes closed, so it only hurts newbies who end up getting frustrated and quit, after getting lost for 4 hours in a row, not being able to find their friends. It was such a pain in the ass when I started, needing to have a 3rd party map opened and trying to figure out where I was by the landmarks, something that would come to me naturally anyway, after playing for a while. I would get the whole "Hardcore" premise, IF THE MAP WAS RANDOMISED, but it's not. It's like needing a map in your back garden. It's just one of those obtuse systems that a small vocal niche of people insist on, so they can pet themselves on the back for being hardcore, without ever picking the map ingame, because they don't even need it at that point.

[shedora]

Nobody benefits or loses out, really. New players who don't know the map will have to learn the map, much like the older players who had to learn the map. That's just how being new to a game works. You can have a 3rd party map open, you could use the ingame map, you could just remember landmarks. You die a lot in DayZ (especially new players) so it's just sort of the learning experience if you want to. Like you said, you could also pull a 3rd party map up, but if you play using that map for long enough you're just going to start recognizing things and before you know it, you don't need a map. If after playing for a good long time and you still need a map to go anywhere or find where you are, that's user error baby

[gemdidit]

There are several factors I find frustrating being very new to this game. So far I have only played official servers. And yes, I still need to get good. However, constantly getting lost, Night being super boring, Not to mention a complete lack of rocks if you can't find a knife. Rocks should be as plentiful as sticks. I watch YouTubers bathe in loot that is non-existent on the servers available to me. I think this game would be more attractive if the servers were less loot empty for survival gear on a new spawn.

[shedora]

In my honest opinion, official servers ruin DayZ for new players faster than modded. Official servers are often filled to brim with hackers and you're just playing the DayZ Bohemia made. (Bohemia did not make a good DayZ) The modding community is the only thing keeping this game alive, try out modded servers til you find one you like. Some have party systems, permanent maps that show your location and your parties location, survival is hard but not barebones running for hours praying for a pear until you keel over.
EDIT: DZSA Launcher is my go to launcher for finding modded servers and downloading the mods. ChernarusPlus is just like Chernarus except it has more lootable buildings and, well, more loot in general.

[Envy The Dead]

Originally posted by Adephx:

Just got me thinking. Experienced players don't need a map, because they can roam around with their eyes closed, so it only hurts newbies who end up getting frustrated and quit, after getting lost for 4 hours in a row, not being able to find their friends. It was such a pain in the ass when I started, needing to have a 3rd party map opened and trying to figure out where I was by the landmarks, something that would come to me naturally anyway, after playing for a while. I would get the whole "Hardcore" premise, IF THE MAP WAS RANDOMISED, but it's not. It's like needing a map in your back garden. It's just one of those obtuse systems that a small vocal niche of people insist on, so they can pet themselves on the back for being hardcore, without ever picking the map ingame, because they don't even need it at that point.

experience pays off in every game or sport whether its online or real life and there is no way around that

we all were new at some point so it is fair you just need to put in the time and learn the game like everyone else did, dont expect special treatment or shortcuts in life

[Idaho]

This isn't an mmo. This is a survival sim(lite).

Imagine if you washed up on some unknown shore, hungry, cold and alone.

If finding friends is a priority, maybe it's the wrong game...

[gemdidit]

Originally posted by Idaho:

This isn't an mmo. This is a survival sim(lite).

Imagine if you washed up on some unknown shore, hungry, cold and alone.

If finding friends is a priority, maybe it's the wrong game...

Yeah, I understand your sentiment and it's a good point. But there would be rocks, most likely a plastic bottle. :), and you think you would have some idea of the area and the people you were with. I know when I travel, I know where I am going. Often have read books and most likely have researched it on google maps quite a bit. I also would know approximately where I was when the boat went down. Not to mention have made some acquaintances and friends by the time the boat went down.

I would surmise somewhere in the middle of Idaho's and Tactically Delicious's positions might make for more players sticking with the game and growing the community to support the game.

I say we start with the rocks and go forward from there :p

[Envy The Dead]

They aren’t gonna change the game and make it easier for you

You gotta tough it out and work on getting better same as everyone else did

[gemdidit]

I think you are missing my point Tact' . . Server jumping because you got spawned in a looted area is boring, not hard. It has nothing to do with being good.

I am not expecting the game to be changed for me. I am already pretty good at getting going and knowing when to abandon a server because there is no loot.

This is for the brand new player. So they don't start playing and get bored and assume the game is not fun. Lots of fun games out there. More players means more content. More players means more money for the devs and more reason to stop the cheats and exploiters. And in the end more PVP for you, the experienced DayZ-er.

[Envy The Dead]

Originally posted by gemdidit:

I think you are missing my point Tact' . . Server jumping because you got spawned in a looted area is boring, not hard. It has nothing to do with being good.

I am not expecting the game to be changed for me. I am already pretty good at getting going and knowing when to abandon a server because there is no loot.

This is for the brand new player. So they don't start playing and get bored and assume the game is not fun. Lots of fun games out there. More players means more content. More players means more money for the devs and more reason to stop the cheats and exploiters. And in the end more PVP for you, the experienced DayZ-er.

You have 11 hours in a game that’s been out for 10 years you are the new player

This game has sold 6 millions copies 4 million in the last few years alone so it’s safe to say they know what they are doing And that the players are happy

[gemdidit]

I agree with your statement, I understand your sentiment. But old players don't create revenue for a corporation because they don't keep repurchasing the product. Well I did a bit because I am new to PC although I doubt this generates much new revenue.

Brand new players, on the other hand, get their friends to play in make sales which brings in revenue.

Think of it like this. I guy gets a new job and get paid the first month. Then the employer quits paying the employee. Will they keep working or go find a new job?

And again this is about more rocks in the tier 1 area. :) I don't think it will affect overall game play much. Just maybe limit server hopping.

Now we seem to have made the circle on the topic so I will gladly bid you adieu Tact. I have enjoyed the conversation, and will most definitely read your reply if you take the time to post one.

Cheers!

[Kris]

Im new myself and this helps me a lot, find i learn the map faster using it, might not be the "correct" way but im old :P

https://dayz.xam.nu

[mud]

map reading and orienteering, one of the first parts of survival. is one of the ways us "old folk" learn and get around this map for so long. lol

[Pike1263]

Originally posted by Adephx:

Just got me thinking. Experienced players don't need a map, because they can roam around with their eyes closed, so it only hurts newbies who end up getting frustrated and quit, after getting lost for 4 hours in a row, not being able to find their friends. It was such a pain in the ass when I started, needing to have a 3rd party map opened and trying to figure out where I was by the landmarks, something that would come to me naturally anyway, after playing for a while. I would get the whole "Hardcore" premise, IF THE MAP WAS RANDOMISED, but it's not. It's like needing a map in your back garden. It's just one of those obtuse systems that a small vocal niche of people insist on, so they can pet themselves on the back for being hardcore, without ever picking the map ingame, because they don't even need it at that point.

You make some valid points in this thread.
Hardcore and realistic are terms I, personally, don't associate with DayZ. They're words many used that attracted me to DayZ, but they're far from accurate. Making things hard to find doesn't make a game hardcore, it makes it tedious and, eventually, uninteresting.
Once acclimated to the environmental survival aspect of DayZ, it becomes extremely easy and the players themselves become the real threat. And, meaning no insult, casual players don't always pose much of a threat.
Your use of the term "obtuse" is very accurate. As evidenced in many other games, there are far better ways to make a game hardcore than simply making things hard to find and tweak settings where things make no sense in real world terms.

[-reno-FR-]

Originally posted by shedora:

In my honest opinion, official servers ruin DayZ for new players faster than modded. Official servers are often filled to brim with hackers and you're just playing the DayZ Bohemia made. (Bohemia did not make a good DayZ) The modding community is the only thing keeping this game alive, try out modded servers til you find one you like. Some have party systems, permanent maps that show your location and your parties location, survival is hard but not barebones running for hours praying for a pear until you keel over.
EDIT: DZSA Launcher is my go to launcher for finding modded servers and downloading the mods. ChernarusPlus is just like Chernarus except it has more lootable buildings and, well, more loot in general.

I dont agree.

For me, modded servers are ruining the experience, because of too much mods like traders, unlimited stamina, etc.

The only really needed mods would be the BuildAnywhere & eventually the Code Lock one.

But most of the mods are just ruining the survival experience & transforming the game to an ersatz of Call of Duty or PUBG games.

Personnally, if I want to play a Call of game, I launch Call of.
Same for PUBG-like games, I will launch PUBG.

On the theme of mods for DayZ, I will also add a personnal complaint :
Too much Community servers are using in their title & description the word "Vanilla" while they are using tons of mods.
It is frankly annoying when you are looking for a real vanilla server with the dedicated searching tools, as those heavily modded & false vanilla will appear in the results, due to the abusive use of "vanilla" word.

Message to those who are running such "false vanilla" servers : be smart, be respectful & assume your choices.
You run modded servers, it is not a pejorative thing, so assume it really & quit "Vanilla" from your title server.

[Envy The Dead]

dayz is not an easy game so those that like easy games will always struggle and complain, they make plenty of those types of games and there are PVE servers too

they are not going to change the game for you, either put in the time and get better like we all did or play an easier game or server