Why is 5.45x39mm weaker than 5.56x45mm?

[dont_ask_me_again]

5.45x39mm is more powerful hands down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4jfcFsheOA

[dont_ask_me_again]

Lower accuracy than the 7.62x39mm is another real inaccuracy.

5.45x39mm will be more accurate than 7.62x39mm easily. (Better handling when firing the 5.45x39mm and because they're the same length - it's down to how sharp the round is... with the 5.45x39mm being the sharper round.)

5.45x39mm's draw-back is potential over-penetration... it may take more rounds to kill because the bullet may not open up a big enough exit wound (just passes through about the same size as the entry wound - still a bigger entry hole than 5.56 will note) but it will happily penetrate armoured targets to give a better result than a 5.56x45mm and maybe in some cases a 7.62x39mm (although I believe this is superior at greater distances).

5.56x45mm will be more accurate than 5.45x39mm no question.

[IM SORRY BUFFALO]

where to start. no not really, just because it does more damage to steel doesnt mean crap, for steel a small diameter bullet at a high velocity penetrates much more than a larger diameter bullet going slower. a over exaggerated example, lets say i shoot you with a 350 grain solid 444 marlin and a standard surplus fmj 50 grain 5.45 x 39, which round will be doing more damage to flesh. against really any sort of armor, the 5.45 will outperform the 556 and 7.62x39 and .308 in penetration

[dont_ask_me_again]

Originally posted by Sec8gokitty199:

where to start. no not really, just because it does more damage to steel doesnt mean crap, for steel a small diameter bullet at a high velocity penetrates much more than a larger diameter bullet going slower. a over exaggerated example, lets say i shoot you with a 350 grain solid 444 marlin and a standard surplus fmj 50 grain 5.45 x 39, which round will be doing more damage to flesh. against really any sort of armor, the 5.45 will outperform the 556 and 7.62x39 and .308 in penetration

I'd probably be dead either way but it depends where you're going to shoot me... if you're shooting towards a limb - I'd rather you shot a 5.56... if you're shooting towards organs I'd rather you shot a 5.45.

With a 5.56x45mm my bones have a better chance of withstanding a complete lose of limb as a 5.45 will just cut through.

With a 5.45x39mm there's a chance you miss or puncture the outer organ and don't create a large enough exit wound to do terminal damage that I can't recieve medical treatment.

If you're aiming for my head a 5.45 will more assurably kill me considering the odd person has survived a 7.62x39mm to the head.

Now, take into account whether I'm wearing body armour - Your 5.56x45mm round will have a harder time reaching my organs (apart from the head) whereas the 5.45x39mm round will enter many more types of body armour and be more fatal.

We discussed so far and points for over-all damage are awared to;

Head - 5.45x39mm (=1)
Organs - 5.56x45mm (=1) but (5.45x39mm if body armour is worn) - (=1)
Limbs - 5.45x39mm (=1)

5.45x39mm - 3:1 - 5.56x45mm

The 5.56x45mm wasn't designed to be a deadly round... it replaced the 30cal&+ standard rifles because (Nato?) armies wanted to create a round giving people a chance to live from an injury. The 5.45x39mm wasn't designed that way... but how you design a round impacts it in other ways... the 5.45x39mm won't be as accurate as a 5.56x45mm, it doesn't even garentee as an over-all deadly round when compared to a 5.56x45mm in every circumstance.

The additional accuracy from the 5.56x45mm still adds a huge benefit because if you're exchanging rounds with someone with a 5.45x39mm at further distances (with both shooters equally aware and prepared for each other) - the 5.56x45mm has the best chance and is likely going to be the winner. At closer distances however... the 5.45x39mm will be more infallible and has the safest chance of succeeding for that reason.

Overall... if you know how to use a gun and understand how a 5.45x39mm operates... the 5.56x45mm is the better round to use because you can prepare against the 5.45 and other inaccurate rounds. If you're feeling immortal with a 5.56 based on sole preference then you'd have had a better chance with the 5.45 - it's the preferred ammunition in countries where they can't attain the necessary experience to fully use a weapon due to it's pragmatic effectiveness. It's why you hear experienced weapon users say... if I was somewhere alien - I'd want an AK over a 5.56 (that's also factoring in it's durabity and reliablity).

There's no better round overall but if you think the 5.56x45mm has greater damage and are willing to hypothetically test this on anyone other than yourself - you'll find yourself in hypothetical jail leaving the court questioning whether it should be for manslaughter or murder... they'd know the bullet you picked gave me a chance to live (on a verge closer to manslaughter compared to a 5.45x39mm but you intended for the round to kill - so essencially, you have a guilty mind for murder)... If we're in a 1v1 where I can equally shoot you with a 5.45 while you have the 5.56... You're the one attempting to charge at me to prove a point leaving me with better odds of survival because you are in a situation alien to your surroundings (already choose the wrong round), you'd be running to me (already lost your advantage - accuracy) and you told me your intentions + the AKs-74u fits in backpacks. GL.

As for the .308 vs the 5.45 on an armoured target... penetration isn't the subject - it's reliabity & higher ammo count (5.45) vs accuracy and range (.308). The one with the 5.45 must reach while supressing the one with the .308 or take strong cover in an environment where the one with the .308 has to get closer to the one with the 5.45. Wars are won either with parasitic tactics or stalemate situations. Someone who initiates an attack can win but this gives neutral people a reason to attack them on sight. Why you would kill can turn you into a prisoner of the war you won. - Sorry for the rant, but you asked a loaded question suggesting I should be up for target practice and from there I felt you there's too much at stake to not answer you in full.

If you're happy to go around and hypothetically offer to shoot people without hindsight, gawd you should be aware of the hypothetical consequences. Lol

[Bellicose]

This is honestly a silly argument if you are at some range and trying to see who has a round that does x better than the other round then fine, but it the real world and to a certain extent in this game whom ever gets the drop on some one first wins. What was that random thing you said about the sharpness of the round? That has nothing to do with anything. Honestly the difference is degligible between 5.45 and 5.56, you are being shot with something straveling at 2700 feet per second once it hits flesh it will cavitate and basicly do the same thing, if it hits bone it might bounce around and shred your inards you have no way of knowing, also depends what it hits before it enters the body, the 5.45 depending on version has a mild steel core, the 7n10 version that was available for sale until recently was the old version and could defeat lvl III vests and mild steel, dont know about ar500 armor performace. The 5.56 round was not created to not kill, it was created to replace the 7.62x51 which was heavy as ♥♥♥♥ and if you could create a lighter round like 5.56 you could double your combat load. Also its 7.62x39 which is slower and heavier. Its very simple look at the grain of each round and look at the total energy that the round has on wikipedia.

You also keep mentioning the accuracy of the round, that depends of so many factors, like the variation of the round what is the composition of the projectile, the type of powder, the rifle firing the projectile, the shooter. Thats why when you handload your ammo you have to play around with so many variables, all of those things matter. Your shot groups with a pistol can look like shotgun blasts if you put the wrong parts together.

A 7.62x51(308) round can also perform drasticaly diffrently, soft point will act slightly differently than FMJ, a 7.62x51 AP round will do less tissue damage but penetrate further and defeat lvl 4 armor. Look at when the Ragers were in Mogadishu they were issued AP 7.62x51 for their m60s and the soldiers reported that the militia who were high as ♥♥♥♥ usually could run through that fire and keep going, and that it took quite a lot of ammo to take them down. Again tho in the end who cares you shoot targets until they stop moving. If you are worried about one shot performace keep going up in caliber its not too difficult.

Also please read wikipedia.

[dont_ask_me_again]

Originally posted by Bellicos:

This is honestly a silly argument if you are at some range and trying to see who has a round that does x better than the other round then fine, but it the real world and to a certain extent in this game whom ever gets the drop on some one first wins. What was that random thing you said about the sharpness of the round? That has nothing to do with anything. Honestly the difference is degligible between 5.45 and 5.56, you are being shot with something straveling at 2700 feet per second once it hits flesh it will cavitate and basicly do the same thing, if it hits bone it might bounce around and shred your inards you have no way of knowing, also depends what it hits before it enters the body, the 5.45 depending on version has a mild steel core the 7n10 version that was available for sale until recently was the old version and could defeat lvl III vests and mild steel dont know about ar500 armor performace. The 5.56 round was not created to not kill it was created to replace the 7.62x51 which was heavy as ♥♥♥♥ and if you could create a lighter round like 5.56 you could double your combat load.

You also keep mentioning the accuracy of the round, that depends of so many factors, like the variation of the round what is the composition of the projectile, the type of powder, the rifle firing the projectile, the shooter. Thats why when you handload your ammo you have to play around with so many variables, all of those things matter. Your shot groups with a pistol can look like shotgun blasts if you put the wrong parts together.

A 7.62x51(308) round can also perform drasticaly diffrently, soft point will act slightly differently than FMJ, a 7.62x51 AP round will do less tissue damage but penetrate further and defeat lvl 4 armor. Look at when the Ragers were in Mogadishu they were issued AP 7.62x51 for their m60s and the soldiers reported that the militia who were high as ♥♥♥♥ usually could run through that fire and keep going, and that it took quite a lot of ammo to take them down. Again tho in the end who cares you shoot targets until they stop moving. If you are worried about one shot performace keep going up in caliber its not too difficult.

Also please read wikipedia.

Welcome to the silly argument, take a seat, an arrow will generally be more accurate than a rock (comparing the AK 7.62 with the 5.45). Accuracy determines if they will drop more than a lot of factors - it's why snipers are considered the OP battle unit and helicopters will be sent to gun them down if they're discovered. I don't think I even allured a dispute against making sure the target is down... I'm talking about which bullet has the highest damage in great detail between a 5.56 and a 5.45 for the purpose of realistic gameplay (this is an incentive right?). Again, can't say I see a dissagreement with your statement on the 5.56 as another factor to why it was used (Most people who served with the 7.62 that I've talked to said they preferred it over the 5.56 - ammo count isn't the factor and it would be the drop - the problem was the mess it can leave - going through buildings hitting targets not necessarily hostile etc... this is counter productive when you're trying to help a country that your involved in.

Yes multiple shots make most of these factors almost null - but "almost"... it can be a difference at some occurances taking on-board what people survived and what they didn't. When you're low on ammo aswell... you're left with single shot - this factors in here aswell.

[Bellicose]

Ok i will say this if the question is just about realistic gameplay thats fine, maybe look through the game files and find out exactly the variables that were assigned to the two calibers. Then again they could be doing what Dice did with BF4 and just assigning arbitrary damadge to rifles in the name of balance, when alot of them shoot the same caliber in actuality.

In the current conflict ammo count might not make as much of a difference but it is a fact that with 7.62x51 in vietnam the combat load was much smaller, with 5.56 you can easily carry double the ammunition. Yeah people who have used the 7.62x51 would say it has a flatter trajectory, can reach out and touch someone at 800 or more meters. I dont know what you mean by the mess it can leave, have you ever watched combat footage in Afghanistan when the HMG opens up (240B) which is 7.62x51, the machine gunner is worried about keeping himself and buddies alive, not leaving messes. Most of these damadge arguments really dont matter. If you dont have the ammo for a fight you need to break contact and get TFO of the area.

Im all argued out tho hahaha, have fun playing the game. Hopefuly they keep their promise and at least get to 1.0.

[dont_ask_me_again]

Originally posted by Bellicos:

Ok i will say this if the question is just about realistic gameplay thats fine, maybe look through the game files and find out exactly the variables that were assigned to the two calibers. Then again they could be doing what Dice did with BF4 and just assigning arbitrary damadge to rifles in the name of balance, when alot of them shoot the same caliber in actuality.

In the current conflict ammo count might not make as much of a difference but it is a fact that with 7.62x51 in vietnam the combat load was much smaller, with 5.56 you can easily carry double the ammunition. Yeah people who have used the 7.62x51 would say it has a flatter trajectory, can reach out and touch someone at 800 or more meters. I dont know what you mean by the mess it can leave, have you ever watched combat footage in Afghanistan when the HMG opens up (240B) which is 7.62x51, the machine gunner is worried about keeping himself and buddies alive, not leaving messes. Most of these damadge arguments really dont matter. If you dont have the ammo for a fight you need to break contact and get TFO of the area.

Im all argued out tho hahaha, have fun playing the game. Hopefuly they keep their promise and at least get to 1.0.

(: tehe