"This game does not support external controllers for the primary player"?

[ThreeSon]

There are many Steam games that are "Deck Verified" but also have this warning. Example: https://steamdb.info/app/921570/info/

I understand this to mean that if we dock the Deck to our TV and try to play a single-player game with a separate controller (DualSense, XBox, etc), then the game will not be playable, because the game in question requires that we use the Deck's built-in controls.

Am I understanding this warning correctly? Please note that I am looking for official confirmation by either someone from Valve or a developer who already has a Deck and can confirm this one way or the other.

[HexGramarye]

Początkowo opublikowane przez WarnerCK:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Sir Gramarye:

Yeah, I get that some games will work better than others. I just don't understand exactly what this means, how often it will occur, and why a custom Steam controller config isn't an option like it would be for any other game.

It will occur on games that Valve have tested and that they say have this issue, at least until the developer chooses to fix it. It may also occur on games that Valve haven't tested yet, but they can't tell you about those because they haven't tested them yet.

What it means is that those games are going to be a pain to play while docked. You could use the Deck as a really expensive controller in those cases, and just have the game's output on your display, but that's probably not going to be a lot of fun.

I get that they're just the messengers and not all games will have 100% functional. What I'm saying is there is an unknown question of how often this will occur. This makes buying the Deck a minefield. I just want to have some sense of how frequently this will happen before I put down hundreds of dollars for it. I don't think it's too much to ask that playing docked with a controller be the standard almost all the time. If they can do it for controller layouts already, I don't understand why controller configs are not an option here. I don't know why it's so controversial to say I want the Deck to be functional in docked mode. If you like handheld mode, good for you.

But no, there is no primary use. The 3DS has handheld mode as primary use. The PS5 has TV output as primary use. The Deck is some of either or both, depending on the player. The evidence is in its design.

[WarnerCK]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Sir Gramarye:

I don't think it's too much to ask that playing docked with a controller be the standard almost all the time.

It's never going to be the standard for the Deck. You can play PC games in a static location with a controller on literally any other PC. If that's all you want to do, use one of those. The only thing that's different about the Deck is that it's handheld.

Games with broken controller support are an issue which is why Valve tell you about them.

[ugafan]

Steam Deck is going to be using Steam Input. It will load a configuration for each game. You can can configure it as a gamepad, keyboard and mouse, or as a mix of both.
When you play a game, the Deck will essentially be acting as the 1st controller.

Unfortunately, not all games accept input from more than one controller at a time. This has nothing to do with the Deck, but a limitation of the game. It's something the developer of the game would have to fix.

A possible workaround for some of these games would be to set the Deck to a keyboard and mouse configuration and the controller to gamepad.

You can test this yourself if you have two controllers. Launch Big Picture Mode and unplug your keyboard and mouse. Use the controllers to try to play the game with both controller set to gamepad. Then test to see if it works with one controller configured as keyboard and mouse and the other set to gamepad. If that doesn't work, set both controllers to a keyboard and mouse configuration.

That should give you a good idea of how it will behave when docked.

[Yistaan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ugafan:

Steam Deck is going to be using Steam Input. It will load a configuration for each game. You can can configure it as a gamepad, keyboard and mouse, or as a mix of both.
When you play a game, the Deck will essentially be acting as the 1st controller.

Unfortunately, not all games accept input from more than one controller at a time. This has nothing to do with the Deck, but a limitation of the game. It's something the developer of the game would have to fix.

A possible workaround for some of these games would be to set the Deck to a keyboard and mouse configuration and the controller to gamepad.

You can test this yourself if you have two controllers. Launch Big Picture Mode and unplug your keyboard and mouse. Use the controllers to try to play the game with both controller set to gamepad. Then test to see if it works with one controller configured as keyboard and mouse and the other set to gamepad. If that doesn't work, set both controllers to a keyboard and mouse configuration.

That should give you a good idea of how it will behave when docked.

You mention Steam Input, yet don't seem to understand how Big Picture Steam Input works.

I use a Steam Link on my PC with Virtualhere where my two gamepads on the Steam Link are controllers 3 and 4. Yet Steam input lets them be the primary controller, even though the primary controller is sitting on my desktop. If Steam Deck works the same way, everything should be fine and there's nothing to worry about.

[figmentPez]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Yistaan:

everything should be fine and there's nothing to worry about.

So, what is your explanation as to why Valve would have this tagged on games for the Steam Deck verification system, then? If all of this is a non-issue for Steam Input, then why would Valve have this as a warning to Steam Deck owners?

[ugafan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Yistaan:

I use a Steam Link on my PC with Virtualhere where my two gamepads on the Steam Link are controllers 3 and 4. Yet Steam input lets them be the primary controller, even though the primary controller is sitting on my desktop. If Steam Deck works the same way, everything should be fine and there's nothing to worry about.

Which game and controller configuration are you referring to?

[Yistaan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ugafan:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Yistaan:

I use a Steam Link on my PC with Virtualhere where my two gamepads on the Steam Link are controllers 3 and 4. Yet Steam input lets them be the primary controller, even though the primary controller is sitting on my desktop. If Steam Deck works the same way, everything should be fine and there's nothing to worry about.

Which game and controller configuration are you referring to?

Practically all of the gamepad games, including Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the Lost Sin which Steam says "This game does not support external controllers for the primary player". There are a very few exceptions though where no fiddling with the Steam Input I use can make the 3rd controller work, such as Ys 8 Lacrimosa of Dana.

Keep in mind, this is my Windows system and thus may not reflect Linux based Steam Deck.

[ugafan]

I just tested Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the Lost Sin on desktop using a Steam Controller and a DualSense controller.

With gamepad configurations loaded to both controllers, only one controller works at a time.

With one controller set to keyboard and mouse and the other set to a gamepad configuration, both worked.

[ugafan]

What does this mean as it pertains to Dark Souls 2 on the Steam Deck?

Scenario 1 - You are playing the game on the Deck (with a gamepad configuration) and then you put the Deck on the dock. If your external controller is set to gamepad configuration, it will not work. Hence the warning.

Scenario 2 - You put the Deck (gamepad) on the dock and then start playing the game with the external controller (gamepad). The external controller is recognized as player 1 and will work. But if you take the Deck off the Dock, the Deck controls won't work until the controller is turned off. Then you can play on the Deck again undocked.

Scenario 3 - Deck is set to keyboard and mouse configuration and controller is set to gamepad configuration. Both will work.

[Yistaan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ugafan:

Scenario 2 - You put the Deck (gamepad) on the dock and then start playing the game with the external controller (gamepad). The external controller is recognized as player 1 and will work. But if you take the Deck off the Dock, the Deck controls won't work until the controller is turned off. Then you can play on the Deck again undocked.

I think most likely what will happen is scenario 2, with the caveat that if you take the deck off the dock, the deck controls will work on the game in question but you have to quit and restart the game first, no different than my current scenario on windows if I try to switch the primary controller.

[ugafan]

Quitting and restarting the game will also work. Once the game is started, whichever one you press a button on first becomes primary.

[retrogunner]

This topic of the "primary" controller compatibility is important as Valve will have to deal with it for 'docked' Steam Decks or those folks using it as a portable console with two bluetooth (and/or wired) controllers for those Brawler games.

But as one post mentioned [paraphrase], "let's stop stating what the correct solution is".

* Valve will need to address it. If they don't, folks will whine about it and the community brain-trust will come up with a solution

* The community solution - there's so many ways to change the default controller given this it's Arch Linux. Here's one possible solution:

For example, Linux has this fabulous feature about 'udev' rules. Basically, when a certain hardware condition changes, it triggers a hardware configuration alteration (or can run scripts/executables) - no reboots required. There are other ways to trigger a udev rule too.

So with a proper udev rule, if you plug in or BT connect a controller, a udev could disable the Deck's controller, make the new controller the primary, then re-enable the Deck controller as secondary or what ever. Upon external controller removal, it reverses the hardware config. Given this happens at the OS layer, the game shouldn't notice or care (definitely not while the game is not running).

Point is, this is a known challenge -- primary controller for select games. Valve and/or the community will address it with any number of solutions.

Cheers, retro.

[ugafan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez retrogunner:

Valve will need to address it. If they don't, folks will whine about it

I totally agree.

My concern is that Valve has not addressed it yet, but has simply mentioned it as a footnote for games as part of the Deck verification process.

[AndyCalling]

Początkowo opublikowane przez @R+5:

the warning is about games that dont have their own menus or tools to change controller settings. most games can be controlled using the steam controller, steam + compatible controller, or the deck.

before the steam controller existed and the system that also allows to use other controllers via steam are hardly relevant if you use any of them.

the only problem you may have to deal with is that you could need to create manually your own config via the steam controller menu to use the controller as "keyboard + mouse", which isnt complicated and doesnt take much time because older configs can be loaded and tweaked.

This. I would add that if you intend to do much couch gaming, grabbing something like (or exactly like, given this is the best couch keyboard there is) this would be a good idea:

Logitech K400 Plus Wireless Touch TV Keyboard With Easy Media Control and Built-in Touchpad, HTPC Keyboard for PC-connected TV, Windows, Android, Chrome OS, Laptop, QWERTY UK English Layout - Black https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00XJ3LVPI/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_5ZXPEFH1B68KJS21CX94

It covers those moments when a game designed for a desktop needs a keyboard entry on a touch screen you can't reach without getting up and going over to the TV and SD Dock. For the low price, having this around is going to be a luxury any docked couch user will want to have.