Let the nerfing begin.

[PC GAMER]

Sure, sure, game balancing this and that. (Yes, yes.)
"Encouraging" different and more robust play styles. (A-ha!)
Still, first major patch and plenty of nerfing to be had;

• Bank of Archers price increased. (2500 not high enough?)
  
• Ceiling Laser damage reduced. (Oh wow, was weak to begin with.)
  
• Ceiling Laser fire damage upgrade reduced. (Upgrade cost or damage? If later, yikes!)
  
• Ceiling Laser collision area of lasers reduced. (Debatable if truly good/bad. I pick bad.)
  
• Tar Trap level upgrades slow amount reduced. (Holly smokes. From weak to weaker still.)
  
• Stone Staff stoned duration decreased. (Way less Medusa fun for you, naughty stoner.)

This makes the already deliberately nerfed endless (end game true fun) mode even less fun. Perhaps the changes above make the handful of game story levels more "challenging". Were they too easy for most people? No doubt this game, like so many, sends telemetry data back to "base", so they can monitor things. Was the tar trap really that good? I saw Kobolds and most orcs walk over them with great ease, nevermind running over them in later endless. In fact, the idiotic and deliberate running speed orcs gain in later endless waves is meant to inform you, the player, the paying customer, that it's time to wrap it up. This is either to literally not allow fun, or perhaps if "genuine", because like OMD2, much later waves cause a memory leak and huge slowdowns or perhaps even crashes or "unwanted" behaviors, and that is how they force end the game - they make orcs immune to any damage traps and increase their speed to such extent that it becomes comical.

Like others stated, no mushrooms/portals (as they were in OMD2) shows absolute proof the developers do not want true endless. At 1200 coins like before, they would still be dear to have in volume early on or for normal games. Heck, if anyone implies they could greatly unbalance the main game, allow them (and maybe some other traps) to be used only with Endless mode. That would still be fair.

To anyone who claims lasers (as a single trap) are currently OP, if enough of you claim so (even as trolling) I will make a video to disprove that claim. They are a weak single trap. No, no, not lasers (sideways) in a corner killbox where several traps do their thing and so one could, carelessly, claim lasers are awesome. No. they are not!

Interestingly, I see no "Saw blades damage decreased" bullet point. Ohhhh. Why is that? (Nananea/Fryedegg/devs like them too much?) From watching some "pros" play, seems the saw blades are overpowered, technically speaking. Want big orcs dispatched fast in main game levels? Use Saw blades. ----- Nerf them! (Not really!) Ah, but no! Those are liked, surely, by someone special, for sure. (Yes, I know, I used those two OMD2 "specials", because I remember how darling buds they were with the devs back then. I checked their YT pages and they are both "dead", so the good times ended. Still, point made. I don't like nerfing, in general. That should be done during internal testing and beta. ..but if any current OMD3 trap is supposed to be "OP", it surely, according to the wisdom of the crowd, is the Saw Blade Lanucher. Yet nothing about that. Interesting indeed. The bug of "stuck blade" notwithstanding, as a "technically" they mentioned them.)

[PC GAMER]

On a side note, wouldn't it be cool to have an option in the game/settings that would show orc health dynamically/live "escape", as a numerical representation (a la XP gain in MMOs and similar games) as orcs get hurt by traps? Again, optional. In fact we already have an optional health bar for each orc. (I disabled that one myself, and would my suggestion too, normally, except when "testing" or having some specific fun.) This would be a very good addition to truly see how traps damage orc health.

Another regular archer improvement would be to have them not target any fire resistant units when the fire damage perk is selected. As is, they literally target something they can not cause damage to, instead on focusing on units they can damage. They literally let units they could kill/hurt fairly fast/well go by, so they can waste shots on something they can not hurt a single percent. I would even go as far as to say its a kind of allowed bug. The developers understand this and yet allow it.

Yes, I would still pick fire dealing archers for most levels, if they would avoid (via internal game code) targeting any fire resistant units and only target ones that are not immune to fire. Matter of fact, their perk should change; have them cause fire or arcane damage. Healing archers is not really needed for regular games, and in endless without being able to also revive them via the old trinket, it means nothing fairly fast.

[Runner52091]

This game is not enjoyable i find myself needing to use barricades and tar traps a good majority of the time and now they are nerfing ceiling lasers and the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tar traps. I've had a more frustrating time than an enjoyable time with this game.

This entire game is just one big DPS skill check the creativity is out the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ window. I want to like this game but i just can't because every time i play if i don't use tar traps or barricades i'm literally running around trying to stop a flood of enemies and playing endless mode is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoyance i just want to have fun instead of constantly thinking about min-maxing. Please add more traps and maps that are balanced for more than just 3 traps.

Seriously if they are increasing the Bank of Archers' cost to be the same as the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Knight I'm done. ♥♥♥♥ this ♥♥♥♥.

[shadowjhone]

I didn't agree with the Tar Trap Nerf, this one wasn't not good enough to slowdown minions as they think, and for 750 cost price was a just cost for it.

• Stone Staff - The most OP CC in the game, at least we still can kill Flyers with one stun.
  
• Ceiling Laser - Not so sure about it, but I use it a lot to kill Sappers.
  
• Bank of Archers - The must OP trap in the game this one I tottaly agree, I played all war scenarios in the lazy way, just placing Bank of Archers and watch it.

[PC GAMER]

Looks like there is no need for me to make a lasers suck (in endless) video. A guy who actually uses exploits (over and over) to gain YT viewers and followers and boost his channel(s), has done it. He did it, as always, to make money of course. (I am pretty sure Robot is aware of this video, specifically, and is why they perhaps are ready to push a first major patch now, rather than later.)

Yes, the selling of traps in co-op "bug" has been posted about in the forums here too, and way before the video. (That guy latches onto anything "buzzing" or trending and then makes videos to generate income.) Not suggesting he discovered it or anything. In fact, in a kind of way, it is he who "lets" his viewers think he found it - just like he does with nigh most his "perfectly balanced" videos. No doubt many 12 year olds think he actually finds the exploits/glitches/bugs he makes videos about.

The actual point is the lasers and the amount he uses. He uses several other traps, including saw blades, etc. I will "give" them all a pass. Including several other trap types, and all those lasers, and how many indeed, and yet by wave 30 an armored ogre made it to almost the end. Just by wave 35 Moneybags made it even further!! (And then the actual serious issues started around wave 48.) Even cheating and having unlimited funds for traps, CLEARLY shows any trap as being absolutely useless past wave 50ish - as an average. Yes, we already knew this from older games, though not this early, more like wave 150ish or so, but lasers are still weak anyway apart from that. (That's MY sticking point. If lasers are so good, as several of you here claim, they should "carry" an endless game further when using them instead of one other trap. They absolutely do not!) I can place 12 lasers (and nothing but) in the first game map, the one with only four waves and only the two weakest green orcs, and they (some, not all obviously) can walk past them all. Here is the important part; Using the grinder, or several other traps, this doesn't happen. That proves the laser as a trap by itself is weak/er - period. Not just in endless.

Again, I do not care about scoring and using lasers sideways in a killbox. I care about its raw damage output, which is minimal as is, and is about to be lowered still. Perhaps that is where some of you jokers are having great difficulty getting your heads around. Your wave 8/9 (what is the longest wave regular map? 9 waves?) level maps don't count. I am talking about laser traps using endless, and even long before enemies become Titan gods. Like wave 25-40ish or so. (Keeping in mind I can easily now average wave 60ish on some maps - I have like 3 kinda favorite ones though they all still suck as map layouts in my opinion.) Between lasers and some other traps (also in endless) those other traps are better - way better.

Unlimited money exploit video reveals truth about weak lasers;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKRjnAsDxsE

No matter what you say, laser traps are not powerful, and if they are considered as such, that automatically means that many other traps are even more so. Why? Because when going head to head, solo trap vs solo trap, lasers are beaten by so many others.

You do not have to watch the entire video. Skip towards end, see just how many lasers they have, placed since before the first wave, and know they can't even finish wave 50. Then remind yourself there are two players, several other traps are used, many many others, and still they crap out at wave 49. Yes, you and I could play better because those two guys are not "fans", but they had so many lasers which you could not under normal gameplay funding, that it's a good example just for that alone. That there were many other types of traps to help kill orcs, makes it even worse.





PS: I know many of you think you're amazing at OMD, because of scores, and frown upon endless fans. Many here in these forums already said (via other threads) words to the effect of; "flowers and butterfly boxes are the new endless cheat" I beg, strongly, to differ. (But unlike many of you, I am willing to be shown up/wrong. In fact I would love to be, for it means a new endless strategy for me.) Make a full video (no excuses or text only explanations/suggestions - full, un/cut-edited 3+ hour video only or don't bother!) of you getting to endless wave 150+ on regular game difficulty, and I will reward you. How? I will gift you a new (or old) game of your choice available on Steam, or even a pre-order available to buy on Steam, up to USD60. So, no Gold versions, just regular $60 types. Easy as. Show me up, teach me indeed, and get a sexy USD60 game of your choice. Maybe that new Battlefield? Hmmmm? Or Dying Light 2? Or Stalker 2? This offer is for a flowers/butterfly endless in single player and only for one/first user to post reply with link to genuine video. Those two traps are a must, the rest up to you. I suppose this is a "calling you out" to only those people who claim the flower/butterfly combo makes endless easy, or much much much easier. (If that is not you, move on. I too agree that combo is "fake".) I can get to wave 60ish myself without flowers. In fact I think flowers suck bad and do not use them. (I tested some things, can make orcs kinda stay in one place, but then killing them is not possible.) Maybe I am missing something paramount about how to use them, ergo am happy to reward someone with a shiny new game, who proves flowers are the new mushrooms - because some claim this to be so. I do not want written suggestions where/how to place them or how to use them in theory. Make a full length, uncut, video, showing it from start to finish, and if genuine, you get a new game. Sorry to repeat, kinda, but this is specific to using those two traps, as well as anything else you wish. No exploits or glitches either, obviously. I saw a guy get to 130 or whatever on Switchback (since no sapper kobolds on that) so it could be possible maybe to get 150+ by "whatever" means, but "flowers/butterflies" are supposed to take you "anywhere" in endless. I call B/S on that and want actual proof in the form of described video. No words, video!

[TimeMaster]

With the part of lasers not being OP in endless I agree, because there the important is the hard CC and the ridiculous dmg from the broken sawblades.

But they are better than pretty much all traps when paired just with barricades and tar traps, allowing to very easily beat any campaign map with the very same strategy in every single map, that was the argument for it being OP.

I wouldn't be surprised that with butterfly + flower + stone + ice, wave 150 were possible. People were hitting 100+ a year ago in Stadia with those setups before sawblades...

[Casey Ryback]

Publicado originalmente por Roth:

I don't understand why they waited with this update for after the Steam release. They had the game out for a year on Stadia. Surely that must've been enough time to push through some balancing updates before Steam release? And yes, it bothers me because it'll mean my Rift Lord video guide may potentially become useless.

Also, I'd much rather they buff some of the under-used traps, rather than nerfing what's currently strong.

Dito. Buff the more useless traps and potentially work on an additional diffiiculty. Nerfing everything else will just annoy a large portion of fan base. Dumb devs, luckily I am almost done with the game. I will not be buying any DLC from them.

[Mez Koo]

Publicado originalmente por Casey Ryback:

Dito. Buff the more useless traps and potentially work on an additional diffiiculty. Nerfing everything else will just annoy a large portion of fan base. Dumb devs, luckily I am almost done with the game. I will not be buying any DLC from them.

Why powercreep the whole game when you can just nerf the couple op outliers like bank of archers and ceiling lasers.

[Casey Ryback]

Publicado originalmente por Mez Koo:

Publicado originalmente por Casey Ryback:

Dito. Buff the more useless traps and potentially work on an additional diffiiculty. Nerfing everything else will just annoy a large portion of fan base. Dumb devs, luckily I am almost done with the game. I will not be buying any DLC from them.

Why powercreep the whole game when you can just nerf the couple op outliers like bank of archers and ceiling lasers.

I love the way you word it, "powercreep" to make it sound so wrong and bad. Let me put it the way I see it:

- Rather than decreasing stats for traps, increase it slightly for others
- Potentially work on an additional difficulty for those that want a more brutal experience

They do not have to do point 2, I understand that would cost the devs much more money. But what is wrong with point 1? It's better than just changing the playing experience of recent active players.

[Mez Koo]

Publicado originalmente por Casey Ryback:

Publicado originalmente por Mez Koo:

Why powercreep the whole game when you can just nerf the couple op outliers like bank of archers and ceiling lasers.

I love the way you word it, "powercreep" to make it sound so wrong and bad. Let me put it the way I see it:

- Rather than decreasing stats for traps, increase it slightly for others
- Potentially work on an additional difficulty for those that want a more brutal experience

But what is wrong with point 1? It's better than just changing the playing experience of recent active players.

Because easy and normal modes already exist, no point in buffing everything to make it easier, rift lord is supposed to be challenging and the current meta of ceiling laser, saw blades, and stone staff isn't challenging and you're acting like they didn't buff anything, there are way more buffs than nerfs and saw blades are still going to be good, its just a bug fix that is causing it to essentially 1 shot trolls and ogres.

[Mez Koo]

Publicado originalmente por Spimmy:

i watched a twitch stream they neafed archers so much they do next to no damage lol we need more omd and less omdu/omd3 !

Which stream? The changes aren't until next week.

[Shashu]

"Ceiling Laser damage reduced. (Oh wow, was weak to begin with."

Weak?? they very powerful with 5 lasers upgrade, they make swinging maces feel useless, great at killing sappers, and air specially, it's the constant damg and infinite range on ceiling that makes them powerful.

We used them on every map possible and they end up always being the most useful.

Chances are the nerf on them might not be enough.

[Bleydoka]

i really like the changes. Just think the archers didn't need a nerf- Instead nerf the warriors on war scenarios. I can just spam them and win the campaign at riftlord.

[Felio]

Publicado originalmente por Mez Koo:

Publicado originalmente por Casey Ryback:

Dito. Buff the more useless traps and potentially work on an additional diffiiculty. Nerfing everything else will just annoy a large portion of fan base. Dumb devs, luckily I am almost done with the game. I will not be buying any DLC from them.

Why powercreep the whole game when you can just nerf the couple op outliers like bank of archers and ceiling lasers.

I think the game could benefit from some powercreep.

We have these big maps with such interesting builds that should be possible, but traps and cash are so stingy we have to funnel them into and trap the rift.

[Domino/DarkEyv]

There's a grand total of, like, 4 non-war scenario floor traps. Half of them deal fire damage which can't hurt the majority of lategame enemies and now the other half basically don't do anything at all, lol. Really weird approach for them to go with Overwatch levels of "balancing" before they add content that's desperately needed.

[Palumtra]

I'm suprised Butterfly Window wasnt nerfed, that thing , when spammed(and with its low cost, it can be) can cause enemies to walk back into the killbox they might survived.

Tar Trap slowly becoming a shadow of its former self, even fully upgraded, it already barely slowed the enemies on endless once you reched the higher waves, we might as well just use Brimstone , Spike or Rip Saw (that can also freeze stuff) or the Flame Scorcher....

I also dont understand why nerf stuff hard in a PvE game. The only competition is the leaderboard scores (obviously not counting cheaters there) and you need to be clever with your killboxes for that.