Forbidden glades are just not worth the risk

[atlan]

It has been discussed a couple of times here already that forbidden glades have the risk of losing the game but usually to be in a safe spot of opening a forbidden glade, the game is won anyways.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2938628364

That is a screenshot of a typical game of me - I got a bit lucky, hence, I may even win the game in year 5 already. Until the end of year 4, I have not been in a position to open a forbidden glade, especially because I was a little short on food -> enough to keep on going and win the run, but not enough to tank a forbidden glade.

To put it short: For me, winning a game at p20 is easier than opening a forbidden glade. In the context of the winning condition of AtS, I don't see any reason to ever open a forbidden glade except for the sake of opening one. I also don't have a great idea of how to fix "winning a game is easier than opening a forbidden glade".

[atlan]

Won 6 minutes later half way through clearance. Forbidden glades are just not in a good spot.

The same goes for small glades which are still not worth it. For small glades, maybe removing geysirs from dangerous glades altogether and make them small glade exclusive may provide sufficient benefit to tank the hostility?

[DG]

My thoughts - end game difficulty, end game positioning, mid game rewards.

[atlan]

Maybe two guaranteed geysirs would help for forbidden glades?

[Usage Critic Bilge]

I never really thought of forbidden glades as not worth it, but I sure do hate it when the event doesn't give any rep and all you have to show for it is some marrow per 5 sec. That particular event shouldn't even be classified as forbidden IMO, the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ blighted tree or even the Fishmen Cave is worse.

[LotusBlade]

They can be good if you know what is inside glade before opening it and what exact resources needed to finish event. But yeah, 2 of those glades almost ended my run, one of which is eternal storm eagle, who causes Storm season the second you start working on it, so i got around 8 minutes-long storm.

[Usage Critic Bilge]

Storm Bird is based
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2920826157

[Alleria]

Winning the game Y5 on P20 had me pausing for a moment, then I saw the Forbidden Altar. I feel like this building is litterally playing with cheatcodes on.

Anyway, still agree with your point. Except Marshlands, where the reward for the Forbidden Glade actually is worth the risk - which should be taken as a template to improve Forbidden Glades in other biomes.

[Usage Critic Bilge]

Originally posted by Alleria:

I feel like this building is litterally playing with cheatcodes on.

Correct.

[koboldlord]

I feel that there are just a few outliers that you need to worry about among the forbidden glades. Most of them destroy a bunch of resources, but barring a troublesome map modifier you can just time opening them for a point where you replace your lost resources and recover your position. It's just, you're rolling every time you open one because you might get the bird, and unless you have specifically the forbidden lands modifier you can always choose to open an easy and risk-free dangerous glade instead.

Ironically, many of them are a lot easier to handle early. 300 hostility per hearth is much less bad when you have just the one than when you have four. Losing hundreds of food or fuel is less bad when you can take your gatherers off with 20 in each camp, and line up a food trader, and have enough to feed everybody because you only have 15 people in the first place.

I think forbidden glades are in an okay spot if we assume that the intended difficulty is viceroy. You can pretty freely open every forbidden glade on the map and explore to your heart's content at that level, and you can use the cool exclusive forbidden glade features without having to worry about actually losing a run for them.

[Crashtest]

Originally posted by Alleria:

Anyway, still agree with your point. Except Marshlands, where the reward for the Forbidden Glade actually is worth the risk - which should be taken as a template to improve Forbidden Glades in other biomes.

Agreed, the Marshlands make the forbidden glades exciting in a way that the other biomes just don't. In most games, opening a forbidden glade isn't worth it because the worst case scenario might be game-ending (hi stormbird), and the best-case scenario just delays your victory by a year (hi giant mole) by lowering your resolve.

[Illicitrus]

I feel like regular glades aren't worth it. On average, the net haul from two regular glades is less than a single dangerous glade, and the cost to deal with the event is rarely an issue after the first glade.

[atlan]

Originally posted by Alleria:

Winning the game Y5 on P20 had me pausing for a moment, then I saw the Forbidden Altar. I feel like this building is litterally playing with cheatcodes on.

Anyway, still agree with your point. Except Marshlands, where the reward for the Forbidden Glade actually is worth the risk - which should be taken as a template to improve Forbidden Glades in other biomes.

Actually, for those quick y5 p20 wins (I have not managed a y4 victory yet, not even close), the forbidden altar is not the relevant - I don't know if I even took something good there. "Ubercombos" take some time to kick in. I came around to notice that where I get stuff done quickly, it's because the "small" things fit well together. Quick complex food, orders that allow fulfilling each other and match what you are building anyways etc.

To the topic: Even in Marshlands, I basically never go for forbidden glades.