Why do people like the Godfrey/Hoarah Loux fight again?

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

This boss sucks.

Yes, when using a Mimic Tear or another spirit summon he is a piece of cake, but have you tried fighting him completely solo?

This is the only boss in the game that REQUIRES you to jump during the fight as dodge-rolling is way too punishable.

The problem is, no other boss in the game requires you to jump to fight them, all of their attacks are dodgeable or blockable.

If the game had gradually introduced jumping mid-fight as a necessity from early on, it wouldn't be a problem, but the way it's done here is just plain retarded, not to mention the awkward timing of these attacks.

"bUt BuT.. mUh ChAdFrEy!!!"

♥♥♥♥ you.

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Nubi, Toa of Gaming:

The problem with your argument is that it boils down to "You must learn!"

In actuality, the game must teach me its mechanics, not just expect me to learn everything on my own. Yes, it is possible to learn them on your own, but it is not good game design. It's lazy at best and incompetent at worst, but people here are defending it like they've got Stockholm Syndrome or something.

No, a late game boss doesn't need a tutorial - you should know the game by now, and found your preferred style. Now you need to figure out how you can beat him. If that means doing something you didn't use much, that's fine. I mean, everyone has the ability - it's not an obscure item or something really noone does.

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

Originally posted by eoozy:

OP proceeds to lie because he cant be arsed to learn the fight properly. Probably a troll post but whatever, it doesnt take crazy amounts of "dedication" to learn how to roll through those attacks, unless you've been playing the game your eyes closed the whole time.

Those who accuse others of trolling are usually the ones trolling

[Lord Bob]

Originally posted by mpcgannon:

Originally posted by Nubi, Toa of Gaming:

I don't know if I have a favorite, but I like bosses with unusual-looking movesets (like the crystalians or Godskins). Their animations are very creative and kinda funny :UTLAMETHYST:

How 'bout Astel. I HATED that skull bug. Committed a weekend to learn him.

Astel has some attacks that seem wonky at first, but as soon as you get the hang of it it's a no brainer.

Unlike Stars of Darkness, which has an incredibly BS grab attack that always manages to oneshot me as a sunbro.

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

Originally posted by mpcgannon:

Originally posted by Nubi, Toa of Gaming:

I don't know if I have a favorite, but I like bosses with unusual-looking movesets (like the crystalians or Godskins). Their animations are very creative and kinda funny

How 'bout Astel. I HATED that skull bug. Committed a weekend to learn him.

I am yet to fight him completely solo, so I'm not sure. In my previous times fighting him with a mimic, he was easy, but we'll see.

But hey, at least he's optional

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Nubi, Toa of Gaming:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

I know it is not for me but I wil answer anyway:
Some 2 to 3 attempts but the pattern is clear on 1st attempt too, tho need to see it the first time.

And I see no problem, it is a playstyle (that works)


Sorry but it is a gamble only on the first time he uses (and maybe on 1st orr 2nd try) but once you saw it a couple of times, or at least some 3 or 4 times (and I believe at least on 1st try Hoarah would use it at least twice so 2x per try) it is enough to dont be a gamble anymore.

You just said it but ok, I understand you did not mean "totally a gamble" to how you perceive the fight

And that is the point, "you" did not fight him trying to learn, you just went into it trying to beat it, not trying to learn. If you tried to learn first then go at it even the first try could have taught you most or all the moves and gave you idea of tthe wind ups.

The problem with your argument is that it boils down to "You must learn!"

In actuality, the game must teach me its mechanics, not just expect me to learn everything on my own. Yes, it is possible to learn them on your own, but it is not good game design. It's lazy at best and incompetent at worst, but people here are defending it like they've got Stockholm Syndrome or something.

The mechanics were taught to you, but as in any "fiight" you need to learn how your opponent fights.
It is true in real fight and in fighting games and is also true here in ER (and the other Souls games more or less if the boss is not just a bigger reskin of a normal enemy).
Feint or faking an attack or move to luire the enemy to take action so you see how the enemy reacts is part of real strategy that work in fighting games and work here too.
If you force the boss to show its moves while not taking so many blind risks you learn the boss fight on your first try even (like, DS3 after I leearned how to fight bosses with Abyss Watchers all bosses but Midir, Friede and Gael were 1 to 3 tries, incldusing Pontiff that was 1st try and the final boss that was 3 tries, that because DS3 was my first Souls game that I played blind and solo learning the mechanics on my own and how I play grants me that I can do similarly in all other souls-like games, including ER).

It is good design, bad design would be if every move the boss use is just the exact same moves all other normal enemies used but put toogether into 1 enemy with huge HP bar (like what is the case with Sekiro final boss Isshin Sword Saint, it is just the final test with very little new stuff there, even the poor punchbag Genichiro is back for plot reasons)

[RedRiot193]

Originally posted by Nubi, Toa of Gaming:

Originally posted by mpcgannon:

Nice vent! I specifically like signing off with "♥♥♥♥ you"!

Personally, I like the moveset. And half my builds utilize jump attacks, which helps.

What are your favorite bosses to contrast?

I don't know if I have a favorite, but I like bosses with unusual-looking movesets (like the crystalians or Godskins). Their animations are very creative and kinda funny :UTLAMETHYST:

Did you enjoy the godskin duo? I hated slim and jim.

[Key]

Originally posted by Lord Bob:

Originally posted by mpcgannon:

How 'bout Astel. I HATED that skull bug. Committed a weekend to learn him.

Astel has some attacks that seem wonky at first, but as soon as you get the hang of it it's a no brainer.

Unlike Stars of Darkness, which has an incredibly BS grab attack that always manages to oneshot me as a sunbro.

Sunbroing as a massive tank upsets me because since enemies do more damage I can't show off how completely unbothered I am by getting hit when i fight in my world.

It's sad. :c

[Lynfinity]

Originally posted by Nubi, Toa of Gaming:

...but are you seriously going to argue that jumping through his attacks is not the intended way to avoid them?

I'm not going to argue. I've showed you firsthand that dodge rolling is just as reliable AND just as intended as jumping, so if you're just gonna "Nuh-uh" me and say "Well it takes more effort to learn the timings of dodge rolls!", then I don't think anything will convince at this point.

Have fun fighting Godfrey, though

[EF_Neo1st]

And yes, I called Isshin Sword Saint a bad design because it is just all enemies put together within the bosss having a very huge HP/posture bar (multiple bars in that casse). It is not even hard because I had fights with aalll enemies of the game until I could beat entire areas not taking any damage to master every move, when I had to fight Isshin I could clearly recognize everything and even the "slightly new stuff" were not all that new either.

[Getrkod]

You don't need to jump. The timings aren't even that bad for it. The first stage where the rocks appear can be annoying since you have to either dodge back out of forwards next to him to definitely avoid damage (easy enough if you just stay close), but the second half of the first stage is so easy to dodge. It hits arena wide, but hits for a short time and is well telegraphed if you have a good reaction time.

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

Originally posted by vamirez:

Originally posted by Nubi, Toa of Gaming:

The problem with your argument is that it boils down to "You must learn!"

In actuality, the game must teach me its mechanics, not just expect me to learn everything on my own. Yes, it is possible to learn them on your own, but it is not good game design. It's lazy at best and incompetent at worst, but people here are defending it like they've got Stockholm Syndrome or something.

No, a late game boss doesn't need a tutorial - you should know the game by now, and found your preferred style. Now you need to figure out how you can beat him. If that means doing something you didn't use much, that's fine. I mean, everyone has the ability - it's not an obscure item or something really noone does.

"If Fromsoft abuses me that means it loves me!"

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

Originally posted by RedRiot193:

Originally posted by Nubi, Toa of Gaming:

I don't know if I have a favorite, but I like bosses with unusual-looking movesets (like the crystalians or Godskins). Their animations are very creative and kinda funny

Did you enjoy the godskin duo? I hated slim and jim.

I enjoyed fighting them solo way more than I did fighting Godfrey/Hoarah Loux solo.

They are just a couple of funny guys doing funny things and I already know all their moves from fighting their solo versions so there was no learning curve with that fight

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Nubi, Toa of Gaming:

Originally posted by RedRiot193:

Did you enjoy the godskin duo? I hated slim and jim.

I enjoeyd fighting them solo way more than I did fighting Godfrey/Hoarah Loux solo.

They are just a couple of funny guys doing funny things and I already know all their moves from fighting their solo versions so there was no learning curve with that fight

Honestly they are more of a chore once you use the pillars (godskin duo), like "cmon, die already, I even beaten you two multiple times before this aand now I have to beat you two mutiple times ina row? cmon...".

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Originally posted by Nubi, Toa of Gaming:

...but are you seriously going to argue that jumping through his attacks is not the intended way to avoid them?

I'm not going to argue. I've showed you firsthand that dodge rolling is just as reliable AND just as intended as jumping, so if you're just gonna "Nuh-uh" me and say "Well it takes more effort to learn the timings of dodge rolls!", then I don't think anything will convince at this point.

Have fun fighting Godfrey, though :monokuma_DGR:

It's cute that you thought you could change my mind

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by Nubi, Toa of Gaming:

I enjoeyd fighting them solo way more than I did fighting Godfrey/Hoarah Loux solo.

They are just a couple of funny guys doing funny things and I already know all their moves from fighting their solo versions so there was no learning curve with that fight

Honestly they are more of a chore once you use the pillars (godskin duo), like "cmon, die already, I even beaten you two multiple times before this aand now I have to beat you two mutiple times ina row? cmon...".

I mean, I get why people find that fight annoying (although I think it gets WAY more hate than it deserves), but at least you don't have to learn a completely new game mechanic to defeat them.