What is the point of nonconsentual invasion items (Bloody Fingers) in this game?

[2hu2tru]

I only learned today that it was no coincidence that every time I invaded someone it was always some pansy sitting behind an army of his gold spirit buddies and that only those who are playing cooperatively can be invaded.

I'm not here to debate the morality of a game-play role that exists to grief the experience of another. But I'd like to ask what the purpose of an item like the bloody finger even is anymore.
At least in older souls games (dark souls 1) the cracked eye could invade anyone and you'd have a relatively high chance of getting to prey on a evenly matched player so for people looking to play predator in their dark souls game could find use for it.

but to my understanding on Elden ring the only two scenarios that exist of invaders is:
Your entering a world where you will absolutely be outnumbered by at least one other person
Your entering a world where another player is expecting and maybe even consenting to a mutual duel (taunter's tongue, Red effigy, duelist finger)

So as an invader it feels as though such a gameplay style is being directly discouraged by punishing those who want to "'invade" by putting them into a matched disadvantage and really only encouraging people who want to "duel" often in pre-established dueling areas and with red signs.
Why have the bloody finger in the game at all if it only exists to punish the people who choose to use it?

[echo_ML]

Because while Elden Ring was being developed, the devs asked Miyazaki to work on invasions. When they came back later, they found he had fallen asleep on his keyboard while looking at pictures of Sister Friede's feet.

[SoundsOfNight]

We need Walrus in here to give you some tips on writing coherent arguments because that is a rough read. My head hurts.

Anyway, Google why Miyazaki includes invasions. That will answer a big chunk of what you are asking.

[megareader5000]

Yeah I prefer the DS3 system but this is fine too so I don't really care

[Lord Bob]

Originally posted by Harvesto:

I'm not here to debate the morality of a game-play role

Hey cool, finally a level headed approach to inva-

Originally posted by Harvesto:

that exists to grief the experience of another.

Welp, so much for that.

It's not griefing, but an invasion. They are, by their very nature, taking place without consent. Because if players consented, they'd be called invitations.

Originally posted by Harvesto:

but to my understanding on Elden ring the only two scenarios that exist of invaders is:
Your entering a world where you will absolutely be outnumbered by at least one other person
Your entering a world where another player is expecting and maybe even consenting to a mutual duel (taunter's tongue, Red effigy, duelist finger)

Again, everyone is consenting. You get all the multiplayer, or none of it. There is no inbetween. As soon as a host decides to summon in a cooperator, npc or player, they consent to invasions. That is how this game works.

Originally posted by Harvesto:

So as an invader it feels as though such a gameplay style is being directly discouraged by punishing those who want to "'invade" by putting them into a matched disadvantage and really only encouraging people who want to "duel" often in pre-established dueling areas and with red signs.
Why have the bloody finger in the game at all if it only exists to punish the people who choose to use it?

Because the people who use it usually have an awful lot of fun in doing so. The one thing that is holding you back from having fun is being able to beat the two to three man party.

I genuinely suggest a change in mindset. Beating a four man gank in Dark Souls Remasterd is the best thing that can happen during an invasion. Yes, the power creep was less present in Ds:R, but this makes winning invasions in Elden Ring all the better.

What exactly are you having trouble with during an invasion? Is it just the numbers advantage of the host and their summons? If so, try to split them up. Try to make it work somehow, be prepared if they try to wait you out.

[Kleerex]

Use the arena if you want a 1v1.

[Don Lobo]

Originally posted by echo_ML:

Because while Elden Ring was being developed, the devs asked Miyazaki to work on invasions. When they came back later, they found he had fallen asleep on his keyboard while looking at pictures of Sister Friede's feet.

Lazy Michael. Can't even finish using the feet pics before falling asleep. I just want him to do a full day's job for a change.

[Dragonirian]

Oh hi guys

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Originally posted by Harvesto:

What is the point of nonconsentual invasion items (Bloody Fingers) in this game?

They were asking for it. I mean, did you see what they were wearing?

[echo_ML]

Originally posted by Dragonirian:

Oh hi guys

https://youtu.be/zLhoDB-ORLQ?si=krrrQLob-UDLV6-f

[Kleerex]

Originally posted by Dragonirian:

Oh hi guys

Look who's back, back again!

[CB]

the point is roleplay. the souls series gives you the rare opportunity to play as a bad guy, and not an 'i picked the red options with frowny faces' bad guy. it actually lets you be directly antagonistic to other players and in a meaningful way, where they're actually still playing the game and you get to be part of that.

opt-in pvp would undermine a lot of what makes it good and what makes it work. when you're against people that are just playing the game normally, you have the game to play back at them -- you can ambush them or follow them around, waiting to strike. or they can try to clear the level just to be done with you. they can try to escape and it wouldn't be like they explicitly signed up for pvp before they ran to the fog wall. it's the difference between killing a host before he gets away and a gank squad having an emergency escape into pve they won't even bother clearing.

[SoundsOfNight]

Invasions make the game more interesting. It's one reason why Soulsborne has been so successful. Look at Steam charts - there are currently 60k players STILL playing ER as we speak.

For perspective, Dragon Age: Failguard had a PEAK of 90k lmao.

[Janthis]

Originally posted by echo_ML:

Because while Elden Ring was being developed, the devs asked Miyazaki to work on invasions. When they came back later, they found he had fallen asleep on his keyboard while looking at pictures of Sister Friede's feet.

Then he got distracted while planning another poisonous swamp area. They managed to get him away from the computer before he turned the whole game into poison swamp.

[Dragonirian]

To answer your question, OP

In His infinite wistom, our Lord and Saviour Mike Zuko from Avatar the Last Airbender realized that dedicated invaders are much more skilled than your average player due to constant training of fighting while being outnumbered, so the only correct course of action is to make it so invaders can only invade the weakest pushover people that need help and summon it in the first place, or a gank squad so we don't fall asleep.
Unfortunately there wasn't enough time to implement solo host invasions without compromising spirit ashes and riding (even the mod still desyncs often), so we have what we have.
There is hope that next one by the main team will have it fleshed out better.