Is Melina the burned body of Ranni?

[Wushiba]

There's certainly a connection between the two and I think this is it:

-Melina talks about being "burned and bodiless" and we can find the burned, discarded body of Ranni on top of a tower that she got rid of to free her soul.

-Both Ranni and Melina have something going on with their opposite eye, can't be a coincidence.

-Also both of them know Torrent and there's probably other proof out there.

Therefore I concluded that Melina is actually the burned, discarded body of Ranni, living a life of it's own. Probably created/ressurected/given purpose by Marika.

Though it isn't the actual physical thing because we can find that on top of a tower, it is like a spirit / spectral version of it, this is why she can appear out of nowhere.

Though they are two completely seperate person now. They just have a shared past.

Ranni is the soul, Melina is the body.

If someone would argue that: "Melina can't be Ranni's old body because she is X"
Well, she can be both, she probably wasn't "born" yesterday so she had time to explore the world and live her own life for a while before meeting the player character.

Thoughts? Anyone knows any hard proof why this theory can't be true?

[Wushiba]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Wushiba:

Melina only says that Marika is her mother but doesn't elaborate further, also it's not certain that Marika gave birth to her or she is calling her mother for some other reason.

Could be that she doesn't actually have a father.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από nfinite.recursion:

No.

She refers to her "mother in the Erdtree" and that she was born "at the base of the Erdtree" but does NOT name Marika as her mother in this conversation despite specifically using Marika's name at other times.

That's pretty much what I've meant, but you are right, this way it's more accurate, she said it like that.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από nfinite.recursion:

While we as the players know that Marika is the one in the Erdtree during this time, Melina has no memories of her past life due to (presumably) being a disembodied spirit. She is just as confused as the players about her own past and she could very well be referring to someone else inside the Erdtree from a prior era.

True. I haven't thought of that. Good point.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από nfinite.recursion:

confused as the players about her own past

My headcanon is that the past of the player is Dark Souls III. After the ending they either reborn or once that world ended they are somehow teleported to another world to avoid destruction but that erased their memories and perhaps altered/regenerated their soul/body too to fit the current world.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από nfinite.recursion:

In fact, her demeanor changes after you arrive in Leyndell and she departs then rejoins you after defeating Morgott. She left to "ascertain her purpose". After seeing Marika in the Erdtree and learning how she altered the Elden Ring to remove Destined Death she learned that Marika is NOT her mother and Marika is the reason why the Lands Between are so screwed up.

Could be that Marika is not actually her mother, true, though that doesn't mean she cannot be some kind of spectral version of Ranni's discarded body with the soul of the Gloam-eyed Queen, right?

Also, where is the Gloam-eyed Queen even mentioned in game? I've seen her name on some item maybe once but I'm not even sure about that.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Zogtar:

So far we just have theories on incomplete lore.

Which is why I still think this theory of mine can be true, we don't have all the pieces to the puzzle yet, there's still stuff to discover, presumably in the DLC.

[Lord Bob]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από nfinite.recursion:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Wushiba:

Melina only says that Marika is her mother but doesn't elaborate further, also it's not certain that Marika gave birth to her or she is calling her mother for some other reason.

Could be that she doesn't actually have a father.

No.

She refers to her "mother in the Erdtree" and that she was born "at the base of the Erdtree" but does NOT name Marika as her mother in this conversation despite specifically using Marika's name at other times.

While we as the players know that Marika is the one in the Erdtree during this time, Melina has no memories of her past life due to (presumably) being a disembodied spirit. She is just as confused as the players about her own past and she could very well be referring to someone else inside the Erdtree from a prior era.

That is actually interesting. So it could be Marika but it could also be someone completely different and unmetioned so far even?

When asked about Boc she says:
Your seamster, Boc... I see him crying, from time to time. I think he misses his mother. He wants someone to tell him he's beautiful. Does being born of a mother... Mean one behaves in such a manner?
This could mean that she just does not remember her past life as you mentioned, but it could also mean that she might have been been created (somewhat like the Albinaurics) instead of being born in a natural way.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Wushiba:

Also, where is the Gloam-eyed Queen even mentioned in game? I've seen her name on some item maybe once but I'm not even sure about that.

The Gloam Eyed Queen is mentioned in the Black Flame Ritual incantation and the Godslayer's Greatsword.

[Lynfinity]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από nfinite.recursion:

In fact, her demeanor changes after you arrive in Leyndell and she departs then rejoins you after defeating Morgott. She left to "ascertain her purpose". After seeing Marika in the Erdtree and learning how she altered the Elden Ring to remove Destined Death she learned that Marika is NOT her mother and Marika is the reason why the Lands Between are so screwed up.

My guess is that she remembered things after visiting the Erdtree, not learned. And it has less to do with who Marika is to her and more with who Melina is/was and what happened to her in the past.

Taken from the description of "Blade of Calling" (the dagger Melina wields as a summon): "Dagger given to one who set out on a journey to fulfill her duty long ago. The power of its former owner, the kindling maiden, is still apparent."

It would not be crazy to assume that Melina was the aforementioned kindling maiden way back when, and lost her life trying to set the Erdtree alfame. Now, I don't have a solid theory as to what is up with her spitit form and who exactly is her "mother", but methinks visiting the Erdtree helped her remember what she was trying to do in life, long ago. She remembered her purpose, as a kindling maiden, and thus set her mind on burning the Erdtree. For sure this time.

[Darkstorm]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από nfinite.recursion:

In fact, her demeanor changes after you arrive in Leyndell and she departs then rejoins you after defeating Morgott. She left to "ascertain her purpose". After seeing Marika in the Erdtree and learning how she altered the Elden Ring to remove Destined Death she learned that Marika is NOT her mother and Marika is the reason why the Lands Between are so screwed up.

I checked all the Melina dialogues, and while she needed to ascertain her purpose is true, she at no point denies that Marika is her mother, but she also nowhere said that her mother is actually Marika. I think why many believe Marika is mother of Melina(including me)is because Melina speaks quite a few times about a purpose given to her by her mother and then her speaking about the Marika echoes like there would be some connection between the two. But correlation doesn't mean causation and it might be a property of Melina being just a spirit.

[Wushiba]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lord Bob:

The Gloam Eyed Queen is mentioned in the Black Flame Ritual incantation and the Godslayer's Greatsword.

Thanks. Gonna keep my eyes open for those.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Darkstorm:

I checked all the Melina dialogues, and while she needed to ascertain her purpose is true, she at no point denies that Marika is her mother, but she also nowhere said that her mother is actually Marika. I think why many believe Marika is mother of Melina(including me)is because Melina speaks quite a few times about a purpose given to her by her mother and then her speaking about the Marika echoes like there would be some connection between the two. But correlation doesn't mean causation and it might be a property of Melina being just a spirit.

That's right.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lynfinity:

Taken from the description of "Blade of Calling" (the dagger Melina wields as a summon): "Dagger given to one who set out on a journey to fulfill her duty long ago. The power of its former owner, the kindling maiden, is still apparent."

It would not be crazy to assume that Melina was the aforementioned kindling maiden way back when, and lost her life trying to set the Erdtree alfame. Now, I don't have a solid theory as to what is up with her spitit form and who exactly is her "mother", but methinks visiting the Erdtree helped her remember what she was trying to do in life, long ago. She remembered her purpose, as a kindling maiden, and thus set her mind on burning the Erdtree. For sure this time.

What is even a kindling maiden? Another mystery for another day? lol

[nfinite.recursion]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lynfinity:

My guess is that she remembered things after visiting the Erdtree, not learned. And it has less to do with who Marika is to her and more with who Melina is/was and what happened to her in the past.

Yeah. In fact, I think when she returns to you, she mentions that she "remembered something".

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lynfinity:

Taken from the description of "Blade of Calling" (the dagger Melina wields as a summon): "Dagger given to one who set out on a journey to fulfill her duty long ago. The power of its former owner, the kindling maiden, is still apparent."

It would not be crazy to assume that Melina was the aforementioned kindling maiden way back when, and lost her life trying to set the Erdtree alfame. Now, I don't have a solid theory as to what is up with her spitit form and who exactly is her "mother", but methinks visiting the Erdtree helped her remember what she was trying to do in life, long ago. She remembered her purpose, as a kindling maiden, and thus set her mind on burning the Erdtree. For sure this time.

If Melina was the Gloam-eyed Queen, what was she before that? My theory is that she was originally a Kindling Maiden in an era where Destined Death was a part of the Elden Ring. As such, death applied to the Erdtree / Great Tree in that era as well in which a Kindling Maiden was sacrificed to burn the tree so that a new tree can be born in its place.

I believe this to be the case because Marika herself was originally an Erdtree / Great Tree attendant prior to becoming the ruling divine power. A few statues exist depicting her as such, most notably at the Chapel of Anticipation.

Anyway, with Melina stripped of her power as a Goddess and unable to right the wrongs of Marika's actions, she decides to fall back to her old, original role of Kindling Maiden so that the player can hopefully restore Destined Death and repair the Elden Ring.

[cybercybercybercyber4]

after my current run i intend to test what happens when wearing the
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Nox+Mirrorhelm
when talking to the mini ranni doll.

I have the suspicion that ranni within the doll was send there by iji (who also wears a mirror helm), but talking to ranni without the nox mirror helm will reveal to the greater will that something is going on, forcing blaidd to berserk in the process. Wearing the helmet could prevent that. If someone wants to spare me the effort, please test it. We might find something new about rannis lore.

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Wushiba:

Is Melina the burned body of Ranni?

No. She's the left leg of the mighty Eldentron, defender of the Ringverse.

[Forest]

Ranni’s body is at the top of the divine tower. As for who Melina is well hopefully that gets answered in the dlc……. Oh who am I kidding there is gonna be like 1 line about her from a item and all the lore tubers are gonna make hour long videos about it.

[Wushiba]

we can find the burned, discarded body of Ranni on top of a tower

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Born To Noot:

The body of Ranni is still lying at the top of the divine tower of Liurnia

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lord Bob:

her body atop the tower

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Forest:

Ranni’s body is at the top of the divine tower

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από nfinite.recursion:

Ranni's body is found ingame.

Let me guess... on top of a tower?

[GoreTiger]

Ya know, Melina's quote about being "burned and bodiless" creates a weird paradox considering how she somehow sets herself "bodiless" body on fire with the physical flames of the forge.

It often made me wonder if we're really playing events that have already happened in a weird twist of fate. Like Melina already sacrificed herself to burn the erdtree and we're seeing an echo of her that's replaying events inside a memory, or something. There's other things in the world that made me think for awhile we were playing some twisted timewarp situation.

At one point I was even wondering if maybe Vyke was involved with what happened to melina's body.

Edit:
One of the things that made me think this was the frenzy flame ending, and the ring that melina picks up that looks like the exact ring her ghost wears.

[Sirius]

"♥♥♥♥ is weird, don't read too much into it"
- Dark Souls lore in a nutshell

[Fresh]

they're called plot holes and its due to bad writing. stop tryna make a boring character like ranni seem more relevant, she already has more stupid plot armor than patches and hes been in every game in the series.
ur reaching hard asf

[Wushiba]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Sawayaka:

they're called plot holes and its due to bad writing. stop tryna make a boring character like ranni seem more relevant, she already has more stupid plot armor than patches and hes been in every game in the series.
ur reaching hard asf

Sorry Super Hamster, didn't wanna upset you.

[nfinite.recursion]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Sawayaka:

they're called plot holes and its due to bad writing. stop tryna make a boring character like ranni seem more relevant, she already has more stupid plot armor than patches and hes been in every game in the series.
ur reaching hard asf

It's not "bad writing". Fromsoft's lore reflects historical reality. Most of what we know about our own historical reality is just pure speculation presented as fact. In other words, historians looked at historical evidence and then made up little stories to explain their findings. These findings get presented as fact in textbooks.

There is also the angle that you are an outsider stepping back in to a world that has changed while you were not there to observe it. Some have their own ideas as to what the truth is, while others have a different take on it. This is no different than what we experience in reality. Fromsoft's approach to story and lore is different from most other games where every character in that world knows the absolute truth and nobody lies or has misconstrued the truth.